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How much would it cost to get the 2.0t up to par with the 3.8?

32K views 195 replies 40 participants last post by  McFly 
#1 ·
Hey,

Sorry I'm a newbie and I'm undecided on whether I wanna grab a 2.0t or a 3.8.

If I get a 2.0t, how much money and work would have to go into modding the engine in order to match and surpass the 3.8's specs?
 
#2 ·
I don't think there would be an exact answer. I say if you can afford the 3.8, go for it. There is no replacement for displacement. Throw on a turbo on the 3.8, and you'll surpass what you would have done modding the 2.0T.
 
#4 ·
It depends on what you're looking for. (hp wise)

The 3.8's stock are putting down around 250-260whp at the wheels.
if you feel that that is enough for you and you're not planning on any tracking then i would suggest that you go for the 3.8, especially if you feel that 270-290whp is good for bolt-on's

However if you're looking for 330-400whp I would suggest You go for the turbo. a tune with just an intake and exhaust netted some members 236whp-250whp with 250wtq-290wtq...with much more room to play.

I would say that if you're not seriously into modding then the 3.8 is the best choice as I think that it would be pointless to get the 2.0t tune it to JUST the 3.8 levels of power when a 3.8 can be had for an extra $80 a month.

you could boost the 3.8 but that's where things start to get pricey..(6 injectors, 6 forged pistons, 6 forged rods....you get the point)...but then your car would be SUPAULTRAPOWAFUL.....and you would probably end up with more HP than you can effectively put down.

i could reasonably see someone spending $3-4k to surpass the 3.8. that's just a ball park figure.

Its all dependent on the aftermarket and once more tuning shops get there hands on the cars.
 
#5 ·
4Tgen is putting down right around V6 power after doing full TBE, Intake, and a Retune. Probably 2K in parts. If you want to surpass V6 power you're going to need to look into fuel system and a bigger turbo to go along with those parts. Anything past 300ish whp will probably need new internals for long term reliability.
 
#6 ·
Technically, $1500 for the bolt-on turbo kit from ATP will get you well past the stock V6.

The only problem with it is, you really don't know how reliable the engine is going to be with it.
 
#8 ·
Right now, it is to my knowledge ATP is currently selling turbo upgrades. It includes the turbo with oil and coolant harware. It bolts to the stock flanged manifold and cat. I haven’t seen an actual “turbo kit” available on their website. Any turbo upgrades to the 2.0T will require the essential supporting modifications to utilize the turbo to its full efficiency as well as a tuning solution. So once you buy a bigger turbo you get to buy even more parts like a more efficient intercooler, turbo back exhaust, bigger injectors, etc. That’s if you want to use the turbo to its fullest potential. But wait just a second, would you risk boosting the sh** out your brand new 2.0T without upgrading the internals of the engine so that it will be reliable for the many years to come. (Especially if you push it to the limit at the track) Dolla Dolla Bills Yall!
 
#7 ·
I'd budget a couple grand at least. If you want to max out on bolt ons, you're probably looking at intake, turbo back exhaust, intercooler, tune, and even then you're still reaching for the base V6 numbers. If you want to go higher than that, you'll probably need to throw a bigger snail on the car. I don't know about you guys, but I'm over cautious, so if I'm going big turbo I'd err on the side of caution and get some forged internals at the same time.

If you want to keep your warranty, go for the V6. If you don't care about the warranty and want to make huge power.. hell, I'd still go for the V6 and then throw some forced induction on it. :D I haven't seen any recent dynos, but the stuff we got from Korea was showing 300whp with bolt ons for the V6.
 
#9 ·
I'd guess you won't meet or beat the 3.8 without spending $3,000. That includes parts, install and dyno time. Depending on how much of the work you do yourself or shop out, it may be more or less.

Just get the 3.8, it's better. :rofl: Let the games begin.
 
#11 ·
Nope it aint...lol

But i honestly feel that the 2.0t internals are pretty stout for what they are..considering that beyond redline blew their engine and threw a rod...and the rod didn't bend or break. Srt-4s have the same type rod configuration (Cracked caps)....i couldve sworn hyundai said it should be able to handle 23-psi stock...I want to hold them to their word.

So I suggest that you see how much power the stock block can handle when more tuners gets there hands on it and tune with real solutions instead of piggybacks, to see which one might be right for you. :)
 
#12 ·
but it aint that hard either

thats a subjective statement. depends on the experience of the person working on the car/ owner.

I can build an engine in my sleep, so i dont consider it hard.

where someone else would.
 
#13 · (Edited)
How much would it cost to get the 2.0t up to par with the 3.8?

I'm going to guess $6-$7K to be even with and even surpass the 3.8. So far, not one 2.0t has been able to match the 3.8s power to weight ratio with the stock turbo. Most are hitting in the 230whp range with full bolt-ons and tune (intake, turbo back exhaust, upgraded intercooler and piping, plus tune), costing about $5000. A 2.0t would need 242whp with 3300lbs of weight to match 250whp with 3400lbs of weight on a 3.8.

Someone please prove me wrong.

As an example:
$850 Buschur Racing Cat-Back
$200 downpipe
$1260 Buschur Racing FMIC kit
$220 Buschur Racing Intake kit without Carbon Fiber shield
$700 plug-n-play PowerAxel programmer
$300 custom tune
$1500 upgraded stock appearing turbo (estimated, could be $2000)
$400 upgraded injectors
-------------
$5420 total parts only

That does not include installation,shipping, and sales tax, that's just parts unshipped and pre-tax (add another 6-10% for tax depending on where you are)
You can check my notes from reading here:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/12038-buschur-racing-begins-r-d-work-deuce-coupe-11.html

PS. Cost of coming close to the 3.8 would be $4000 for parts only, add in for installation, maybe another $1K
PSS. With full bolt-ons and tune, the 3.8 is seems to hitting about 330+ whp.
 
#14 · (Edited)
at this point i dont think anyone could prove you wrong, sadly the cars are too new. but give it time and they will.

but considering the price difference between a 2.0t track vs 3.8 track is what 5-7k?

The 3.8's stock are putting down around 250-260whp at the wheels.
and 2.0Ts are making 230hp

not far off.

and unless the trans are the same, even matching the power levels. one car might be faster than the other just because of its gear ratio

in the end, its up the the buyer. some people like power off the lot, some people like to tweak things.

I personally am more inclined to squeeze/ tweak power out of the smaller engine. others not so much.
 
#15 ·
Stock 2.0ts are putting down 190whp, NOT 230whp. 230whp is after about $4000 in parts. Also, don't compare power at the wheels to the factory rating, aka power at the flywheel.

The difference between a 2.0t base and 3.8 base is $3K, not $5-7K. You cannot compare the Track models because the 3.8 Track comes with so much more content than the 2.0t Track, so you are paying for all the extra content not so much the motor cost difference. Of course, if you only care for content, then go ahead and compare them.
 
#17 ·
Stock 2.0ts are putting down 190whp, NOT 230whp. 230whp is after about $4000 in parts.
Mode racing has hit 250whp with 291tq with just and intake exhaust and tune...Hardly coming close to the $4K in mods, and 4thgen's car as well...which if im not mistaken had just a catback and catdelete and made 234whp when he dynoed. The videos can be found on Poweraxel's youtube channel
 
#16 ·
ok, you took that the complete wrong way.

gezzus people are sensitive on this forum. i was agreeing with you hence the first part

" yeah at this point no one could prove you wrong........ "

the 2.0T number of 230 was from you comment saying what they make WITH parts..... im not a moron i know they dont make that off the lot. ( typo in my post it seems, my fault didnt mean to say stock 2.0T )

i used the track trims as an example..... but ok base models then... 3K more.

not that much difference.

let me put it black and white then

2.0T can and will make more power than a STOCK 3.8 soon enough

but as far as potential... the 3.8 will have more. but you will probably have to spend more money all around to do it.

but as of now, 3.8's are faster yes.
 
#18 · (Edited)
My apology pornstar, I'm sorry.

renzo088, I haven't seen those dyno's, and 4TGEN is hitting 234whp, not 240whp.
 
#20 ·
^^ 234whp WITHOUT an intercooler upgrade, mind you. Anyway, I'll squeeze over 300whp with only $3,000. Just wait and see. ;)

McFly, the mod list you made for the 2.0T would put it way past the 300whp mark. "Upgraded stock appearing turbo" I think you are talking about Buchur's 35lb wheel upgraded stocker... That should be good for 350+whp. ;) Much more than any non-boosted 3.8.

Anyway, I can't wait for a 3.8 owner to drop $7,000 or more to boost their car. It'll be a BEAST!.... maybe ;)
 
#21 ·
lol i forgot about the possible IC upgrade, Geez and besides 362-340whp is what the new camaro's are making at the wheel and they weigh a ton more. and come with 426-400 hp stock.

400 crank in the 2.0t is enough to handily hand almost any car its ass/buttocks/rear (which ever word you prefer lol).


Simply put...if youre more into modding lightly go for 3.8
or if youre like some of us (like me) and like extracting power for cheap...2.0t

scwewywabbit its all dependent on what you want to spend and what power levels youre looking for.

give us a ball park figure of the power you want and it'll help us to help you make your decision a bit easier

There both great platforms to choose from however,
 
#22 · (Edited)
renzo088, you proved me wrong on Mode Racings car thank you (though it has intake, downpipe, exhaust, tuner, and custom tune on 110 octane), and 4TGEN is hitting 234whp (with intake, downpipe, exhaust, pulley, tune), not 240whp, not 250whp. With an upgraded intercooler and piping he should come closer, but I haven't seen it surpass the 250whp barrier.

So, again, it's close with intake, exhaust, downpipe, and tune. Will they put down the same EXACT power on the same dyno on the same day? Will they run the same at the track? Who knows. But, looks like it's close enough to say yes, about "$3000 ($2300 parts plus installation) is what it will cost to get the 2.0t up to par with the 3.8."

As an example (using what I posted previously):
$850 Buschur Racing Cat-Back
$200 downpipe
$220 Buschur Racing Intake kit without Carbon Fiber shield
$700 plug-n-play PowerAxel programmer
$300 custom tune
---------------------------
$2270

Add in installation, tax, and shipping. At most $3000

So, about the same cost to get the 2.0t base and then buy the mods to hit what the 3.8 would hit stock, as just buy a 3.8 base.

After that power level though, you add another $3500 and hit about 350whp... which is approximately what the 3.8 would cost to hit with bolt-ons and tune. The 3.8 would be at a bit of a disadvantage in power though, as it won't be at 350whp, more like 330whp:
http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/12017-dyno-high-angle-cams-installed.html

Bottom line, when would you like to void your warranty. Sooner (2.0t) or Later (3.8).

AND, when would you like to have the power. Sooner (3.8) or Later (2.0t)
 
#23 ·
So, about the same cost to get the 2.0t base and then buy the mods to hit what the 3.8 would hit stock, as just buy a 3.8 base.

After that power level though, you add another $3500 and hit about 350whp... which is approximately what the 3.8 would cost to hit with bolt-ons and tune. The 3.8 would be at a bit of a disadvantage in power though, as it won't be at 350whp, more like 330whp:
http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/12017-dyno-high-angle-cams-installed.html

Bottom line, when would you like to void your warranty. Sooner (2.0t) or Later (3.8).
I'm willing to bet that you'd surpass the efficiency of the tiny stock turbo (and probably the fuel pump and injectors) before you hit this mark...but then again if you're just worried about matching power levels and track performance of the 3.8 it's apparent that such is possible with the stock turbo
 
#24 · (Edited)
The $3500 extra to hit 350whp is for:
$1260 Buschur Racing FMIC kit
$300 custom tune
$1500 upgraded stock appearing turbo (estimated, could be $2000)
$400 upgraded injectors
-------------
$3460 total parts only (edit: without shipping, and tax)
 
#26 ·
I'm still here aren't I. hehe.

I keep going back and forth with which to get, and/or waiting for the R-Spec. All the issues the car is having is also holding me back a bit.
 
#27 ·
The car is having it's fair share of growing pains but the potential is certainly there..personally, I wish they had chosen a slightly larger turbo with a bit more wiggle room for modding. Still though, if the 1/4 mile and trap speed for intake/exhaust and reflash are impressive then the minor hiccups can be overlooked
 
#29 ·
It's a custom tune that mode racing has. The reflash is made conservative for all the variances the engine and bolt-ons can be, to be safe. I highly doubt that you would ever make 250whp with anything but the best parts and the best tune. Maybe 225 to 250whp depending on if you pay $1500 to $2300 for the parts you need.
 
#30 ·
^^^ Just give the market some time. Things will become much more affordable as more companies jump on board. Especially in the tuning department... Like I said, I'll have the car pushing over 300whp efficiently on only $3,000. :hello:

It's sad that a lot of people doubt the 2.0T's potential. To each their own.
 
#34 ·
I'll try to be optimistic, and hope you're right. I'll try to be patient and following your work.
 
#35 ·
Installing a part does not equal immediately void warranties. A failure as a direct result of an aftermarket modification will void the dealer doing warranty work to repair the failure.

Why are we comparing base models of the cars? 2.0 Track $26,750. 3.8 Track $29,500. $2750 difference.

I was dead set on getting the turbo, but the draws of the V6 have me wanting it quite a bit more now. Too bad there won't be a 3.8 R-Spec. I'd jump alllllll over that.
 
#32 ·
A Cold Air Intake can take water in, and the dealer may blame the Cold Air Intake if there is an engine failure... but then I've heard of insurance companies picking up the bill due to being covered for water damage (unless you have a cold air intake clause that would keep the insurance from covering it). An exhaust shouldn't unless you remove the cat converters. So, any after cat exhaust (aka cat-back) should be fine. If you do remove the cat converters some dealers/manufacturers claim that it will void the warranty because they feel that removing the largest restriction that a motor has, the cat converter, is going to allow too much flow and may damage the motor.

In the end it depends on the dealer... Since after all they are actually required to prove the part caused the damage to the item they are voiding warranty on, in court... Of course, you don't ever want to have to take it all the way to court, they know that, and count on that. So, you basically have to go with general feel/consensus on what a dealer will or will not be upset over... so much, to tell you to take a hike on a warranty claim.

I hope that makes sense.

Simple answer, I wouldn't worry about it... just watch out for low water crossings with the cold air intake and you're good.
 
#33 ·
I just want the throaty sound in the exhaust. I don't want to do more than that. I also like the idea of keeping the engine happy. Which is why I wanted to do some research on these different grills to allow more airflow and also as to what benefit the CAI has on the engine performance. :)

I will be all over this stuff once I finally get my car. Right now is mostly research. Ill be picking lots of brains on here when my time comes. :D
 
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