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Cost to mod, and to what power level: 2.0t and 3.8

57K views 70 replies 34 participants last post by  flacoupe2.0T 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been considering how much it would cost to mod the 2.0t and/or the 3.8. Therefore, I have approximated the cost to mod your car, and the approximate powerlevel you would achieve.

2.0t, from stock, cost of base model new, $22K, puts down about 175whp stock
Cost to mod 2.0t, and to what power level:
tuner $700 (reflash $500)
intake $220
downpipe/testpipe $200
exhaust $850 Buschur Cat back
----$1970, 234whp (a gencoupe owner has reported that a 3" turbo back exhaust, cold side piping, intake, Waste Gate Actuator, Block off plate and Forge BOV... had taken him from 185whp to 231whp, no tuning, the 234whp number at this level may need to be adjusted to 250whp, although add about $450)
intercooler kit $1k (or just a intercooler if the stock pipes can be used someway)
custom tune $300
----$3270, 250whp
upgrade compressor wheel and bored turbo $700??? Could be more
upgraded injectors $400 (will need 750cc for mid 400whp, so might as well go there)
TiAL BOV w/flange from Buschur $275
custom tune $300
----$4945, 300whp
OR get a turbo kit with everthing preselected: Lovefab Turbo Kit $7200 ($6700 introductory price) gets you 382whp; another coming from 7ism also said to be about $7K

Fuel return line kit $300 (not needed according to lovefab at 382whp)
rod swap $2100 (Buschur Racing has pistons and rods for ~$1400, maybe $700 install, you can also ask Beyond Redline which has a fully built long block:rods, pistons,cams,head work, head studs, could be just as a precaution since the rods are known to be risky, while the others are unknown)
GT3076 $1500
upgraded wastegate $200
Turbo adapter $100?
Walbro 255lph fuel pump $100
custom tune $300
Twin Disc Clutch $800 with install
---- ~$10345 at (Beyond Redline currently at 400whp, could hit 450whp w/more tuning, as predicted they hit 466whp on 8/24)

3.8, from stock, cost of base model new, $25k, puts down about 250whp stock
Cost to mod 3.8, and to what power level:
intake 220
exhaust $850 Buschur Cat back
headers $1k
tuner $700 (reflash $500)
------------$2770, 300whp (a gencoupe owner has reported that ARK headers and Injen CAI has given a 33whp gain alone, the 300whp number at this level may need to be adjusted to 310-320 whp)
cams $1500? hopefully less, current offering at that price
custom tune $300
-------$4570, 330whp
Turbo Kit?
------$??? $450whp

3.8 is much simpler/reliable to make 300whp, it's not considered the "tuner" which means warranty won't be such a problem since you know that the dealer will be more critical with the 2.0t... Yet, the 2.0t may be cheaper to get to 450whp, but not 300whp.

Which to get, which to get?

This isn't a debate thread. This is a thread to try to hammer out what the pricing is to get to what power level on what motor.

If you see anything that may need adjustment, please let me know, and I will consider modifying.

These are meant to be average figures, not low end (I made the intercooler in my back yard), and not high end (I paid someone to give me the best intercooler EVER to handle 2000hp).

Edit: Looks like if you want to be in the 300whp range, then you either pay $6700 on top of the 2.0t price, or you pay $2770 on top of the 3.8 price. Or roughly, $28.7K for 382whp (going base 2.0t $22k plus 6700) or 27.77K for 300whp (going base 3.8 $25K plus $2770). So, essentially, if you mod out (NA stays NA, turbo stays turbo), then you get 82whp for about $1000 more going 2.0t... You could also add cams to the 3.8 and narrow the gap, to only 50whp difference, but then you also paid $500 more for less power than had you gone 2.0t.

Disclaimer:
Dyno's are all different. Some are high-reading, and some are low-reading. It could also be a hot day, or a cold day. High altitude, or low altitude. It could high humidity, or low humidity. It could be a load bearing dyno, and could have an operator that loads the dyno/car differently. It could be a hub dyno, and not a chassis dyno. The temperature sensor could be giving a higher reading than actual, or a lower reading than actual. I think you get what I'm saying. Dyno's are all different.

Edmunds typically reads high numbers on the dyno they used. On the stock 3.8 they dyno'ed 279, and on the stock 2.0t they dyno'ed 197. Those are high readings. If you don't believe me, good luck.

I just went with what is typical, not low (ex. mustang dyno), and not high (ex. dynapack, or the dynojet that Edmund uses)
 
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#2 ·
I just realized I need more money
 
#3 ·
Pretty good list from the looks of things.

That being said, I understand that the 3.8 cams aren't suitable for turbo, perhaps I mis-read, but that would save a few bucks if you are going turbo anyway.
Based on a quick google, decent turbo and supercharger kits (turbonetics, vortech, hks) for the 350z are around $5-7,000, and I'd estimate that is a reasonable guesstimation for price until something more concrete comes out.
 
#5 · (Edited)
well... considering Buschur's Stock Appearing Turbo Upgrade, and assuming there's no Flash counter on the ECM...

on the 2.0T, you could potentially be at 350whp while retaining the warranty.

and this may cost somehwere in the ballparks of $4,500?

intake $220
exhaust $850 Buschur Cat back
downpipe $200
tuner $700 (reflash $500)
intercooler kit $500
custom tune $300
upgrade compressor wheel and bored turbo $700
Fuel return line kit $200
TiAL BOV w/flange from Buschur $275

Cost = $4,445
HP = Bout Tree Fiddy
 
#8 · (Edited)
Looks about right... except you forgot the upgraded injectors, $400, and your math is off, your total is $2945. I also don't think you'll find an intercooler that will work for $500, but anythings possible. If you find a way to make a fuel return line kit for $200, rather than $300, post up a parts list, pricing, and how to, when you get to it. Everyone will much appreciate that, while the $300 is just a rough figure I cam up with. I also added in two custom tunes for $300, since people will likely want to break the 250whp barrier with it, and need it again at 300-350whp.

So, that's my additional $1300 I calculated.

Edit: Buschur is close to having the pricing on the stock appearing turbo with upgraded internals. They say that the turbo will be good for 350whp. I'll be updating those cost and power when they release their pricing.
 
#6 ·
If my math of your math adds up correctly, they total almost exactly the same.

22000+3270 = 25270 250whp 2.0t 25000 250whp 3.8
22000+5245 = 27245 300whp 2.0t 25000+2770 = 27770 300whp 3.8

Looks like it will really depend on if people want 250 from the factory or not. It would certainly be easier getting warranty work if all you've done is I/H/E.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for all the good comments. We're all learning, and that's a good thing.
 
#10 ·
i'm not sure why you would tune 3 times.... that's a grand right there wasted IMO.

This is also VERY early on in the market. I think our 220 intakes will be short lived. Others are already coming out at 179... and the prices on things like this are only going to drop as demand and comeptition raises. Plus, as time goes on you will learn what works from watching other people try stuff. The shops are doing a good job for us now, but there's still a lot of 'people' testing to be done.

I'm likely not touching my car for 2 years or so (any serious mods at least) for this exact reason. I see prices in the future cheaper, and i see parts in the future with more RD and track hours behind them. We're in the gold rush right now.... but who made money? Levi Straus.
 
#11 ·
I'm a Engineer/tuner, that's why. I believe in tuning your car to have it run safely, and at it's maximum performance without hurting a thing.

The basic tuner ($700) will be fine for basic bolt-ons. Once you beyond that, you'll need/want to have it custom tuned. At 250whp, you'll likely sit at that power level for some time while you save up for the next major step ($2k for 100hp), it will be in your best interest to tune it to have the most joy out of it and piece of mind, and you will want it custom tuned to be able to show for all the hard work you put into it, aka bragging rights. At 300-350whp, you plainly want that 350, not just 300, and so a custom tune will be necessary. At 400-450whp, same as 300-350whp, trust me you'll want the tune.

Realistically, no one goes into the dealership, buys a car, and then chunks down $7000 in mods to hit 400-450whp right off the bat. Maybe the shops themselves that sell the ktis, but no average Joe.

That's how I feel.
 
#12 ·
actually, i have the money right now.

but like briansol said, i think im gunna wait a little on major upgrades... sh!t, im even waiting on the right intake. Its sooo early in the game. CP-E just came out with an intake that adds an exta 16 HP for example. Before that, 10HP was high.

my goal is 350hp and i plan on keeping my warranty. so im gunna take my time.

when the time comes ill buy what i need.
 
#13 ·
^On a mustang Dyno at that. I agree in the intake.

So, in your case, you might get a custom tune to hit 350whp, and then if you decide later you want 450whp, then you would get another custom tune. Two custom tunes, not three. There is always the case where people will just hit the bigger numbers, but it's more rare.

Props to you, for being able to do that.

I'll also be making changes as prices come down... but, something to consider, if you go with a smaller intercooler/piping to start you then you have to get a larger intercooler/piping later when you want more power. The list is what I see as being more typical.
 
#14 · (Edited)
an efficiency rating of 500HP is more then enough for me. very few people are going to realistically go that high... i can always upgrade the piping later if i decide to. that would be cheap. initially ill just be using the stock piping anyways.


and for u to say that most people will have to save and wait... but then post the prices as they are now.. isnt really fair.

there is no question that parts/tunes will become alot cheaper with time.
 
#15 ·
And there's also people (like me) who are capable of tuning their own cars (I've done at least 10 turbo cars and 5+ n/a before on various software /makes/models). So, only the hardware will be an expense to me... I do 95% of my tuning on the street with a buddy driving like usual, and then buy an hour on the dyno to finish it and get some numbers. The poweraxel solution isn't for me. I think it's hugely overpriced for what it does, and the whole 3 slots thing is kinda wack. Plus, you don't even have the software to tune with in the first place--- just some internet receiver? no thanks. So, i'll wait until some betters them on both technology and price (or, maybe they better themselves)
 
#16 ·
I'm not going to bother modding until next year when there's a few options/proven results out there, as it seems a little silly to pay to be a pioneer. Besides, winter's just around the corner...

That being said, I got the 3.8 because in my experience it's best to start off with a larger displacement engine.
 
#17 ·
My arm and leg is for sale!

Come on, buy!

I need mods!

=P
 
#18 ·
I'm more worried about how anal the dealerships are going to be with any kind of mods. What they told me is that it depends on what you upgrade. If you upgrade your suspension, and your diff. falls out, then they may not cover that. Basically anything the its directly interacting with they may not cover. And come on, lets be honest, they run a business, not a friendly repair shop. They'll take any opportunity they can to say that your intake is why your engine is having problems or some **** like that :p
 
#19 ·
^Well that's no way to run a business, but people do it. Businesses like that should be shut down.
 
#20 ·
they still get paid for Warranty work... so its not hurting them. it just depends on how strict ur dealership is.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Dealerships get kickbacks for not warrantying your car though. Ex: Lets say a dealerships warranty repairs for the month is $25,000. If the dealership can keep it under $20,000 per month then they get a pick of the litter of cars available to dealers. They may get better prices on parts. They may get better prices on cars. They may get priority when they say the word. They may get dealer of the month, year, decade, etc... which also gives them all the perks mentioned and then some.

A crooked dealership would go beyond the honest warranty repair (example: stereo goes berzerk, and just won't function, so they warranty it), and instead they say that you did something to it since you are human error and the car is afterall a Hyundai, which is perfect (you turned the knob to fast when you went to raise the volume, etc).

Dealers know that they can get away with denying warranty. Fact is crooked dealerships don't care what they do so long as in the final $$$ of warranty is lowest. They know that not every person that they deny will take them to court over it. Why would you? You have a broken stereo which wasn't your fault. How many people will take them to court of an item, not 100% that's for sure. Even if it does go to court, they may put up their facts and twist on the matter, while you tell the truth. Since courts expect you to put your twist on it, they go for the happy medium of what could have actually occurred. Since the dealership has a lawyer on retainer, which they typically do, you get screwed since their twist puts the happy medium on their side, and they win. Now, how many will they lose, not 100%, but some. They also take into account how much money you will likely spend at their dealership, if you seem like a guy that only comes in for warranty, then forget you, but if you seem like a guy that will bring your car in for every maintenance you ever need or will be purchasing more vehicles, then they prefer to not have to screw you. So, they take all this into account, and they deny warranty on what they wish.

It's the same thing you always here about on recalls on vehicles. If the cost to issue a recall cost more than the amount they have to dish out for the number of suits over deaths, they don't issue a recall, and wait for the deaths and lost lawsuits, even though they know people will die over it.

Applying the above to a warranty case: If the cost to warranty an individuals warranty claim costs more than the percent likelyhood they will dish out an amount of money, they don't warranty the vehicle, and wait for you to fight them in court over it, even though they know the warranty should rightfully cover it.

It's crooked, people die, people lose money that they shouldn't need to be losing, but dealers/manufacturers do it anyway.
 
#22 ·
Something that was mentioned on another thread, and I hadn't stated yet.

On the 2.0t I have not added in a turbo manifold, oil pressure gauge, turbo timer, wideband for safety, and aftermarket boost gauge for additional security/boost. Some of this may/may not be needed, and it may depend on the power level... Anyway, thought I'd throw that it.

It may also, and even more so, apply to the 3.8 if you go boost.
 
#23 ·
The kit to make 250 whp sounds appealing to me, but I wonder weather or not Hyundai will be manufacturing their own bolt on mods for the Genesis, and if so would they be more warranty friendly? That would be a decent route to go but if all the mods will be aftermarket I may wait till my warranty is void till I start ripping and tearing apart the motor, and adding on more speed ticket inducing mods.
 
#25 ·
You know... I was thinking. What if your first mod was a bored out and built up turbo?

What then? How much power? Any gains if it was your sole mod? What would come next?

Hmmm.

I'll have to ask Buschur Racing this.

If it's the biggest/worst thing/bottleneck affecting power, why not start there??? What would happen? Would the car all of a sudden seem very modifyable?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Once you install a turbo with a higher cfm output then yes, the vehicle becomes more modifiable...but you must have a means of adjusting the fuel to compensate for the higher flowing turbo. However, a larger cfm means you could adjust for several levels (i.e. 15 psi on the street and 22 psi on the track) with a boost controller and capable air/fuel management system.

A while back, Road/Race put together an upgrade path for 2nd gen DSM's a car that I think the Gen Coupe mirrors in terms of being plagued with a ridiculously tiny turbo. I've included it but to sum it up, after I/E (full turboback exhaust) and boost controller the next mod DSM guys would do is discard the turbo in favor of a bigger one. I can't see why this path can't apply similarly to the GenCoupe:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gupgradepath.htm

As a side note some of you may be thinking that after I/E and boost controller the next logical step for any turbo car is to replace the turbo...while this holds some validity, if the stock turbo has an efficient cfm rating (for a given displacement) then you're less likely to run out of steam up top (small turbo) or lag like there's no tomorrow (large turbo). When the cfm is small you run into the same problem that is plaguing the GenCoupe and had plagued 2nd gen DSM's
 
#27 ·
^Awesome, Thanks!
 
#28 ·
Not bad prices for a lot of the DSM stuff. Wonder how long until prices drop for the gen's parts? Too bad we can't use some of the parts for our car. It seems like you could since we both have the 2.0L turbo. I know they are put together a lot different, but are'nt the motor and turbo very similar?
 
#29 ·
No, 2nd gen DSM's have a cast iron 4g63t block whereas the Theta engine is aluminum...the Theta engine isn't even compatible with its cousin the 4b11t (Evo X) which uses a twin scroll turbo

The pathway shown is a possible means for upgrading the 2.0t since like DSM's, it has such a small snail...we'll have to wait for more parts for the 2.0t before prices start to drop
 
#31 ·
Assuming a 15% drivetrain loss (~265whp), 300hp is possible on the stock turbo with I/E and decent tuning...there are a couple of 2.0's running at around 250whp

However, if you're referring to 300whp then it's probably not possible
 
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