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#1 Old 12-16-2011, 11:04 AM
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Dry oil system

This is for both 2.0t and v6's(especially now with hope of the turbo kit's coming out).

This question really goes out to the vendors like SFR or Beyond Redline or those how have the ability or experience rip apart our engines.

For those that don't know what the difference is between at wet and dry system Dry sump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Has anyone put any put thought into this? I know it's more complicated then a wet system, but for those going to big numbers, or want good numbers without having to crazy boost. Just going from wet to dry your looking 30hp/tq (this # is based of other platforms, some platforms have made even larger numbers then this), plus a FAR BETTER oil system and this would increase engine reliability also be good for anyone wanting a long stroke with a stroker kit and is worried about the crank hit the bottom of the oil pan. Also engine mounts can be lowered to give a better center of gravity.

I know this would around $2k just in parts but i figured this would be a interesting avenue for people that already are rebuilding there engine, in which case this is more.... realistic.

I am not a list of mods but what i know and share:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/94778-fuel-system-what-you-need-know.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/86146-wastegate-101-a.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/91199-compressor-maps-how-read-them.html

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Last edited by cris90; 12-16-2011 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Other benefit
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#2 Old 12-16-2011, 05:59 PM
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really 31 views and no comments? dam.... o well leave it to me to think of something that no1 is interested in.

I am not a list of mods but what i know and share:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/94778-fuel-system-what-you-need-know.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/86146-wastegate-101-a.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/91199-compressor-maps-how-read-them.html

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I know you like making threads about these things that have been covered a ton, but this time, no.
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#3 Old 12-16-2011, 09:24 PM
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This is really something best suited for racing, Not so much for dd. Turbo piping is tough enough to find places for, finding space for 2 gallons of oil plus piping for that and how to run it really would be a challenge. Also, with that much oil to warm up, you'd have to idle the car about 1/2 hr to 45 minutes before you could drive it. Oil changes would also take on a completely new meaning.

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#4 Old 12-17-2011, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ZakRabbit View Post
This is really something best suited for racing, Not so much for dd. Turbo piping is tough enough to find places for, finding space for 2 gallons of oil plus piping for that and how to run it really would be a challenge. Also, with that much oil to warm up, you'd have to idle the car about 1/2 hr to 45 minutes before you could drive it. Oil changes would also take on a completely new meaning.

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will i ya i figured this wasn't for DD, even though almost all Porches and vet's Z06 and up, and the new LS1 camaro, and sti's, are running this a lot of people are talking about how there going to put twin turbos on there V6, so there already in this hard core power adder range, and all the 2.0t's saying how there going to order BR's new drop in enigine and put top mounts.... figured while u have your block out someone could finish the job and REALLY make a race car.

I am not a list of mods but what i know and share:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/94778-fuel-system-what-you-need-know.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/86146-wastegate-101-a.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/91199-compressor-maps-how-read-them.html

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#5 Old 01-11-2012, 11:44 PM
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RMR already have one for the 3.8.

These are really only needed for track work where high lateral Gs cause oil starvation to the bearings.

In addition to the sump/ pump you have to accommodate all the other oil lines and a tank.
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#6 Old 01-12-2012, 05:15 AM
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Is anyone really going fast enough yet to need one of these?

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#7 Old 01-12-2012, 06:38 AM
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from what i've seen it's not about speed it's about whats the BEST. like i said a lot of cars have this car that make 400whp area. even low end porsches use this as well as Carmaro LS1, shellby mustang.

I've done some research and this is now hitting the market hard for EvoX, i wonder is with slight midfications to the EvoX's set up we can use it.

I am not a list of mods but what i know and share:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/94778-fuel-system-what-you-need-know.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/86146-wastegate-101-a.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/91199-compressor-maps-how-read-them.html

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I know you like making threads about these things that have been covered a ton, but this time, no.
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#8 Old 01-12-2012, 07:02 AM
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Evo X uses a different oil pump, so I doubt it'd work.

Not about speed? Yes and no. When you get to a point where you accelerate(or deccelerate) hard enough (in any direction), you need it. We're tallking about cornering, accelerating and stopping forces.

Is it best for performance? Absolutely. Do our cars create enough g force to warrant the additional cost? I don't know. Does anyone have enough money wrapped up in a motor to warrant the additional cost of this "insurance"? Maybe soon.

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#9 Old 01-12-2012, 07:06 AM
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Anyone had our oil pan off? Are there baffles in it?

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#10 Old 01-12-2012, 08:33 AM
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You'd need a new pan for a dry sump, if that's what you're getting at.

Don't get me wrong, this can be done. It actually wouldnt be that hard. The issues I see are driving the pumps, whcih could be accomplished by making a custom crank pulley, and making a by-pass for th stock oil pump.

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#11 Old 01-12-2012, 09:55 AM
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Rhys Millen Racing &mdash; RMR 3.8L V6 Dry Sump

Enjoy

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#12 Old 01-12-2012, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Merkles View Post
Not even a complete kit. You'd need lines, fittings and a holding tank, just off the top of my head. Seems steep.

FWIW, you can get a COMPLETE dry sump for a 4g63 for that cost.

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#13 Old 01-12-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JChandler View Post
Not even a complete kit. You'd need lines, fittings and a holding tank, just off the top of my head. Seems steep.

FWIW, you can get a COMPLETE dry sump for a 4g63 for that cost.
The 4G63 has been around for over 20 years, in 20 years a dry sump kit for our cars will be that price as well.

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#14 Old 01-12-2012, 12:23 PM
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I see your point. That kit was released about 2 years ago.

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#15 Old 01-12-2012, 01:55 PM
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Tristen burned an engine up at the track from lateral Gs & ended up installing accusump system to avoid it happening again.

http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/43137-p...light=accusump

page # 38 post # 746

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#16 Old 01-12-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tufast View Post
Tristen burned an engine up at the track from lateral Gs & ended up installing accusump system to avoid it happening again.

http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/43137-p...light=accusump

page # 38 post # 746
thats waht i'm talking about!!! super cool....this might be over price and unrealist but talk about cool people that are planning on huge turbo set ups $5-6k, engine rebuilds another $5-6k, including labor, spending ANOTHER $5 for a system that'll give you a edge that no1 would expect.... priceless.

btw if anyone is crazy enough to do this i recommend getting the gears in our transmission custom built to put 6th gear to better use... traack only of course lol

I am not a list of mods but what i know and share:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/94778-fuel-system-what-you-need-know.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/86146-wastegate-101-a.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/91199-compressor-maps-how-read-them.html

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I know you like making threads about these things that have been covered a ton, but this time, no.

Last edited by cris90; 01-12-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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#17 Old 01-26-2012, 02:30 PM
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That Rhys Millen "kit" price is out of this world!

Call ARE, Armstrong Race Engineering, and inquire about custom oil pan casting. ARe made all the pans for my old boss when he ran VW SuperVee, US F3, and some late Toyota Atlantic motors.

This was a long time ago before they made a Nissan RWD sr20 oil pan I wanted. They quoted me about $1000/pan with a minimum order of 5. Not bad for a low production casting run.

Oil pump will be the most expensive part and will depend on the design and how many stages you choose to go with. Options are gear, gerotor, roots, and new design Peterson oil pump company makes which resembles a screw supercharger.

For a 4 cylinder engine a 3 stage pump will suffice with 1 pressure section and 2 scavenge.

Due to large volume of oil in the tank, sometimes up to 12qt, you run an inline thermostat that only opens to big loop oil cooler at operating temp.

Drivebelt system would be easy to make. Crank pulley in the genesis is a single rib. Adding an adapter with a cog-belt pulley is easy work. Just need to source a longer crank bolt.

Pump mounting can be done in the A/C compressor location.

Here is a picture of a VW US F3 engine we did with ITB's, drysump, and Electromotive engine control system.:







This is a drysump setup I did on a Nissan SR20DET engine I built years ago:





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#18 Old 01-26-2012, 03:47 PM
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Contact Stef's for a sheetmetal pan, also.

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#19 Old 01-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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that is really cool

I am not a list of mods but what i know and share:
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/94778-fuel-system-what-you-need-know.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/86146-wastegate-101-a.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/91199-compressor-maps-how-read-them.html

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#20 Old 01-28-2012, 11:00 AM
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Yeah.... a dry sump is only really good for track use. It's added weight and complexity. Admittedly, you can lower the engine CG by using a shallow pan, but for a production car you'd have to re-do motor mounts to lower the engine.

I've designed/manufactured/tested a dry sump oiling system for my university's Formula SAE car for two years now, and it's a lot of work. However, going from a wet sump oil pan that's over 5" tall to a shallow dry sump pan that's less than 1" tall is huge for CG in a car this small (speaking of which, I need to finish CNC machining my pan this week...). But then you have to factor in the added weight for the external reservoir, the oil pump (that buggers heavy!), and all the lines.

It's great for a pure race car, and we have no issues with oil pressure, and we can see a lower car CG. But I don't know if I'd bother with it on a GC, unless it was a pure track car. And even then, is it worth a complete redesign of a critical engine system? Your time might better be spent fine tuning suspension settings, and then you can just design some baffles for the wet sump pan.

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