All Motor 3.8 - Hyundai Genesis Forum
 51Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 150 Old 12-15-2016, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Tuff Buffaloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
All Motor 3.8

Hello all,
This my 2013 Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track 8AT I've had it now for nearly 3 years.











(Currently)
Engine:
- Turbokit w/ 6266 JB Precision Turbo
- Turboxs RSD catback
- 6 port devils own meth kit
- TK headers
- Dual turbosmart wastegates
- Dustin Davis's Engine leash
- Koyo Radiator
- Derale 18 - row transmission cooler
- Mishimoto oil cooler
- mishimoto baffled oil catch can
- mishimoto rad hoses
- fuse box/ lightweight battery relocation kit by BTR
- Snoopy's Slim fan shrouds
- Ported & Polished TB and IM

(Currently)
Suspension:
- Stance Supersport coils
- Enthuspec Endlinks
- Stock Sway bars (going to Whiteline in the front and Eibach in the rear)
- Soon be corner balanced

(Currently)
Brakes/Wheels/Tires
- Motul R600 Brake fluid
- StopTech Slotted rotors
- Hawk HPS brake pads
- Enthuspec SS Brake lines
- Custom Brake ducts
- Enkeis RS05RR 9.5/10.5 x 18
- Continental DW 255/40 285/40

(Currently)
Exterior :
- Painted Gemeni Hood
- CF fog bezel
- M&S style lip
- APR Splitter
- Dual low beam projectors
-Quik Latch Hood pins

(Currently)
Drivetrain:
- Level 10 Valvebody and Torque Converter
- JRC Diff cover (sitting in garage)
- ATQ diff mount (waiting to be shipped)
- PBM Solid subframe bushing (sitting in garage)

(Currently)
Interior:
- Stock with the exception of some gauges


Ever since I bought I've been tinkering with it. Since this was my first car I've ever modified I've hit alot of road blocks and obstacles but I always kept pushing forward. About a year and a half ago I bought the turbokit from Turbokitts.com, TK headers, redo the up pipe, custom fab a Turboxs RSD catback from the 2.0T, 6 - port Methanol/water injection and more. Between school and work it has become every more difficult to maintain the car to be able to take it the track (time and money being a factor). The turbokit itself was not the issue, it's an amazing piece and I am very pleased with the outcome and the customer service was incredible! Made 420WHP/400WTQ at a measly 7psi on a 90degree day! Thanks Jesse! Just have different plans for the car to be a bit more hassle - free to be able to beat on it and still drive it home without have to worry how I am going to go to work/school. As I love this platform I decided to not sell the car and just sell the turbokit. So this well be a documented journey back to NA from FI.



So my first plan of attack:

A good friend of mine and a mechanic will help me undo the turbokit and weld the oil drain spot in the upper oil pan. Also since I'll be selling the headers along with the kit and exhaust as well; I ordered CP-E longtube headers with Catted X-pipe and CNT catback. Also with the turbokit having removed my wiper fluid container, I will be doing a custom 3.5" intake into the foglight area near where my oil cooler sits. This will also be followed Unorthodox Racing lightweight pulleys.

Reasons for choosing these parts:

CPE headers in my opinion are the only headers made for these cars for NA application that have any sort of science behind them. Other companies use 2" primaries and short distance before the collectors. Even the collectors don't have a good design (most do not have a collector spike that smoothes the air going in to the exhaust). This causes the velocity of exhaust to decrease which on NA application is most critical when searching for max VE. Thats why most say "headers dont add power". You cant just slap on some tubes to the end of the exhaust port think it's going to gain power. End Rant/ lol. CPE uses 1.75" inch primaries which a pretty long and have proper collector followed by an X - pipe. Long Tube headers promote scavenging by keeping exhaust pulses separated and moving at high speed for as long as possible. This helps with low and midrange torque. X - pipe is also important in balancing the velocities of both banks since it is a V - configuration engine. I will be posting dyno sheets after parts are installed and tuned for.

CNT exhaust because it is cheap and sounds good. Theres really not much more too it. It's 2.5 inch which is still too big for these cars (NA) probably.

Custom 3.5" intake in foglight area - Short ram intake literally sit in a hot ass engine bay, sure with the hood open on the dyno you can see some gains but close the hood and a couple pulls and you will see it is worse than stock. I will be wrapping my intake DEI reflective heat wrap and providing fresh air from the opened foglight area. I chose a slightly bigger size than the TB (3.25") because future mods will most likely warrant more air flow.

Unorthodox Racing Pulleys - these provide the most weight savings and are backed by reputable company, and if Travis runs them then so do I lol

Hopefully by the end of the year the Lap3 tuning module will be out and I can tune for this setup and provide some numbers and proof for my claims.

Stage 2:

So now we move into uncharted territory, I will be purchasing Bisimoto Stage 2 camshafts with their springs and retainer kit. Bisi claims an additional 15% of power with supporting mods of course. Now based on these numbers if I can extract 300whp from my initial setup then I could easily be bumped a whopping 45 whp leaving me at powerful 345whp. Now clearing from past attempts and other V6 platforms not gaining these numbers with just cams I will try to do the best I can for max volumetric efficiency at stock displacement. Before getting the cams I will going to a local fabricator and see if he can help me create a new custom intake manifold, preferably dual plane with 2 2.0T throttle bodies. After this I will be doing cams and doing some extensive porting and polishing of the heads (valve bowls, 3 – angle valve job, gasket matching everything, opening up a little the exhaust ports). Now with all this in place my hope is to reach 350-360whp, being conservative I would say 340whp.

Again these numbers are all hypothetical and will be proven probably somewhere in the early spring.

All in all, whatever numbers I get from these mods it will definitely increase the powerband all around to make for a very safe, reliable, and powerful car to track and daily drive, which really what else can you ask for. My goal is not to have the highest HP, or the fastest. There will always be someone faster someone with more money etc.. lol I wanted to build the motor for a mild NA setup because ultimately I like the beauty of it, sounds, and complexities. While it being a mild build, it would be very reliable and with minimal maintenance required. I would be to beat and abuse it at the track and drive it back home all the time. It would also be nice to show some NA potential of these cars. I think Dustin Davis shares my thoughts a little.

I will be updating this post with pictures and more description of this progress in order to shine a light into the dark and forgotten side of Naturally Aspirated power. Any and all questions are welcomed as I am also learning in this process!
Tuff Buffaloo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 150 Old 12-18-2016, 08:45 AM
Addicted to parts
 
titan2782's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,338
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 935 Post(s)
Garage

Great read, can't wait to see the "you're crazy" responses for ditching the turbo kit. I think the lambda gdi has a lot of potential n/a, we just need to spend time with r&d. Very hard to do with out a tuning solution, so lap3 will be a big reason this succeeds or fails.

Very interested in the long tubes. I already explained my theory to you, so this should be good.

We are most certainly in agreement and i look forward to collaborating with you.

3point8 Performance
Engine Leashes, BK1 & BK2 3.8 intake manifold porting
https://www.facebook.com/3point8GenesisCoupe


2014 3.8 R-Spec 326HP/290TQ (89* temps, 91 octane)
3.91 Gear Swap, SFR Custom Tune, 80mm TB, PnP manifolds, Ark GRiP v2 CBE + test pipes,
NST pulleys, K&N Drop in, coolant bypass, Phenolic Spacer, IAT relocate & shave,
better ground mod, modified stock airbox
Engine leash, Megan trans mount, 235/35/19 (F) 255/35/19 (R) Hankook V12, EBC Yellow pads
titan2782 is offline  
post #3 of 150 Old 12-18-2016, 12:19 PM
In Charge of Snacks
 
Odelagt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA(We're broke, too!!!)
Posts: 1,498
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)

Hahhaha, I'm excited!

'11 3.8 R-spec
Custom BTR tune(kinda meh, better than old power axel)
TWM short shifter
Grimmspeed phenolic spacer
Grimmspeed balanced intake manifold
Throttlebody coolant loop bypass
Mishimoto oil cooler and remote filter
Weapon R SRI
Jury-Rigged Fluidampr
Super Swanky custom twin-tip single 3" exhaust! (that's a mouthful).
BC 2-way coilovers
Subframe collars
Urethane diff bushings(Not a good Idea)
19" x9"9(front) x 10"(rear) Forgestar Cf5V w 265 30 and 295 30 tires
Odelagt is offline  
post #4 of 150 Old 12-18-2016, 01:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Dfwlly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 132
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)

Subbed for sure. I'll never go FI but more options on the NA platform are something I constantly look for on these forums.
titan2782 likes this.

2013 Ultimate AT, Tsukuba Red
BTR Custom Tune
Maxbore Ported TB to 82MM, Coolant Bypass
Injen SRI
Phenolic IM Spacer
IAT Shaved
CNT V3 Catback with Depot Racing Test Pipes
Eibach Pro Lowering Springs, Bilstein B8 Struts
Velox Apex 18" wheels, Continental Control Contact Sport 235/45, 255/45
Diode Dynamics LED kit
Dfwlly is offline  
post #5 of 150 Old 12-18-2016, 06:08 PM
shorttrack
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nightmare on any Street ,Houston Texas
Posts: 678
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)

Nice read.
Tuffbuffalooo likes this.
shorttrack is offline  
post #6 of 150 Old 12-25-2016, 05:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)





CPE headers came in already ceramic coated in silver!
Also CNT exhaust came in all good no damage.

I also ordered my lightweight pulleys from unorthodox racing, Gates racing belt, and some new Iridium spark plugs.

Hopefully in the following week or two I can start the conversion back to NA. I will be doing a baffled oil pan with trap doors etc.. Better safe than sorry. I will be posting up the design and pics as soon as it starts.

Before doing the intake manifold I will likely be swapping out my suspension for PBM coils and new sway bars. All will be updated here!
titan2782 likes this.
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #7 of 150 Old 12-25-2016, 05:59 PM
Cone Killa
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)

Those CP-E headers are sweet. Good to see you on the forum as well, I follow you on IG. Subbed.
titan2782 likes this.
ApexEight is offline  
post #8 of 150 Old 12-26-2016, 03:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexEight View Post
Those CP-E headers are sweet. Good to see you on the forum as well, I follow you on IG. Subbed.
Thanks !
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #9 of 150 Old 01-02-2017, 06:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)





Alright then, so new CPE headers are installed as well as CNT exhaust. Ill soon be pulling the oil pan and likely be creating a custom baffle for it. Ill be using trap doors from Improved Racing. Unfortunately Lap3 has not said a word about their module so I am already considering other options, like maybe driving up to BTR when the car is ready. We will see lol.

In regards to the intake manifold, I might scrap the twin plenum idea and just try to get a 90mm TB and do an LS type intake manifold. It'll have long enough (12-15 inch)runners to help long end torque as the runners will wrap around the plenum. Any ideas are welcomed.

I've been trying to take some queues from Sasha's 350z build (400whp NA) hopefully if i can just mimic some of his ways I can reach my goals.
titan2782 likes this.
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #10 of 150 Old 01-03-2017, 05:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)



Oil baffle looks pretty crude because it's just tacked on, Ill post a picture when it is finished. Sparks plug have been changed. Pulleys have yet to arrive.
titan2782 likes this.
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #11 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 07:25 AM
Addicted to parts
 
titan2782's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,338
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 935 Post(s)
Garage

You have a link to the 350 build?

Those headers look really nice. How was the fitment and install? I'm assuming since you have the oil pan off you haven't driven it yet. Curious on your impressions.
Tuffbuffalooo likes this.

3point8 Performance
Engine Leashes, BK1 & BK2 3.8 intake manifold porting
https://www.facebook.com/3point8GenesisCoupe


2014 3.8 R-Spec 326HP/290TQ (89* temps, 91 octane)
3.91 Gear Swap, SFR Custom Tune, 80mm TB, PnP manifolds, Ark GRiP v2 CBE + test pipes,
NST pulleys, K&N Drop in, coolant bypass, Phenolic Spacer, IAT relocate & shave,
better ground mod, modified stock airbox
Engine leash, Megan trans mount, 235/35/19 (F) 255/35/19 (R) Hankook V12, EBC Yellow pads
titan2782 is offline  
post #12 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 07:46 AM
Cone Killa
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by titan2782 View Post
You have a link to the 350 build?

Those headers look really nice. How was the fitment and install? I'm assuming since you have the oil pan off you haven't driven it yet. Curious on your impressions.
Sasha Anis of onpointdyno.com. Dude's 350 is a beast. Googling his name and "350Z" should bring up a bunch of stuff.

OP, did you jump on those PBM coils and RLCAs? Such a good deal
Tuffbuffalooo likes this.
ApexEight is offline  
post #13 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 07:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)

Nissan 350Z VQ35DE Engine Build - Modified Magazine

OnPoint Dyno's 350Z

There's more but that's a start lol

Fitment of the headers is next to perfect, properly made. I have no doubt in my head these were made with a science not just some crap they welded together. Comes with 4 ports on each headers. 2 O2 sensors and then for whatever else you want, (dual channel wideband, EGT sensor etc..). Install was not bad, jacking up the motor and removing the steering rack made it significantly easier. The headers sit pretty low as any longtube would so I have to be careful for the time being. Ill take some pics when I can.

Oil pan is in i forget to take pictures but it's basically just welded in properly and cleaned up. Made sure the trap doors open full swing. This is the link for the trap doors: Trap Doors for Oil Pans and Fuel Cells (4-Pack) EMR-20X-KIT

As far as oil, I was using 10W-40 ZRod from AMSoil but I decided to switch back to AMSoil Sig Series 5W-30. ZRod has a high zinc content that gets burned and will eventually clog the new cats. Sig series offers enough protection life span for NA.

The CNT exhaust really showed it's worth yesterday lol, it was off from the headers by like an inch. I had to reweld it. I assume it was because of the tolerances of the flex section of the OE downpipes.

I will adding a stage in between 1 and 2. Stage 1.5: I will be swapping out my Stance Super sports, for KW V3s and going with a couple more suspension and drivetrain mods.
titan2782 likes this.
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #14 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 08:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexEight View Post
Sasha Anis of onpointdyno.com. Dude's 350 is a beast. Googling his name and "350Z" should bring up a bunch of stuff.

OP, did you jump on those PBM coils and RLCAs? Such a good deal
I didn't actually, They were a good deal but I decided to go with KWs because of their overall design and proven function, if you want me to go into detail I will lol
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #15 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 08:58 AM
Cone Killa
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuffbuffalooo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexEight View Post
Sasha Anis of onpointdyno.com. Dude's 350 is a beast. Googling his name and "350Z" should bring up a bunch of stuff.

OP, did you jump on those PBM coils and RLCAs? Such a good deal
I didn't actually, They were a good deal but I decided to go with KWs because of their overall design and proven function, if you want me to go into detail I will lol
Always down to read up on suspension lol. Are they also a true rear coilover design?
ApexEight is offline  
post #16 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 11:11 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexEight View Post
Always down to read up on suspension lol. Are they also a true rear coilover design?
They are not, Ill get back to you on that tonight,








Awesome job by the welder! 3.5 inch Intake with a 7 inch L X 5 inch W (tapered)
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #17 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 12:51 PM
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
inertiamonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 2,825
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Garage

I'm surprised @titan2782 hasn't given you a hard time yet for not having done the throttle body coolant bypass...

Great build BTW.
titan2782 likes this.

2013 3.8 Track Pearl White
inertiamonster is offline  
post #18 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 03:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inertiamonster View Post
I'm surprised @titan2782 hasn't given you a hard time yet for not having done the throttle body coolant bypass...

Great build BTW.
Thank you ! And yeah we've talked about it, I've been meaning to do that but I haven't gotten around to do it.
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #19 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 05:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexEight View Post
Always down to read up on suspension lol. Are they also a true rear coilover design?
So KW V3s are a bit of a compromise in terms of it's hardware, It has a progressive spring rate which makes it great for absorbing bumps and holes in the road but for a dedicated track car on smooth tarmac you'd most likely see a linear spring rate. An inverted monotube will almost always outperform a twin tube setup simply because it's faster to make oil in the valve compartment. Now even with all of these "downfalls" they still out preform almost all coilovers on the market for the car. They also have recommmended settings that have been tested and proven to be better than stock. Also their quality is amazing plus they are german certified. (TUV) In germany you must have that rating in order to drive the car on the road that means the quality of the coils meet proper standards not just someones feelings or opinions. Thats my take on it. PBMs are good quality coils I'd just rather fork over the extra cash and have proven tech.



As for the build I am currently at a crossroads, I am considering getting overbored pistons and sleeves as well as Ferrea Valvetrain (+1mm intake/exhaust) as oppose to the cams. Why? because to make power NA you must do one of two things (or both): raise RPM or increase displacement. Anything else and you are just trying to reach max volumetric efficiency. Now this was my original goal but I can possibly have the funds to bore out the cylinders to a total of 4.2L. Now with just big pistons I will be able increase RPM as well which I would not be able to do with a stroker kit. If down the road I am able to get cams I will certainly crush my goals. All of this is just more costly than cams, headwork, and custom intake manifold tho lol. When I finish selling the turbokit I will crack down on which I idea I wish to take on. As for now, I will be saving and optimizing the suspension to where it shouldve been a long time ago. Dont cut corners guys, do it once , do it right.
Tuffbuffalooo is offline  
post #20 of 150 Old 01-04-2017, 06:46 PM
Cone Killa
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuffbuffalooo View Post
So KW V3s are a bit of a compromise in terms of it's hardware, It has a progressive spring rate which makes it great for absorbing bumps and holes in the road but for a dedicated track car on smooth tarmac you'd most likely see a linear spring rate. An inverted monotube will almost always outperform a twin tube setup simply because it's faster to make oil in the valve compartment. Now even with all of these "downfalls" they still out preform almost all coilovers on the market for the car. They also have recommmended settings that have been tested and proven to be better than stock. Also their quality is amazing plus they are german certified. (TUV) In germany you must have that rating in order to drive the car on the road that means the quality of the coils meet proper standards not just someones feelings or opinions. Thats my take on it. PBMs are good quality coils I'd just rather fork over the extra cash and have proven tech.



As for the build I am currently at a crossroads, I am considering getting overbored pistons and sleeves as well as Ferrea Valvetrain (+1mm intake/exhaust) as oppose to the cams. Why? because to make power NA you must do one of two things (or both): raise RPM or increase displacement. Anything else and you are just trying to reach max volumetric efficiency. Now this was my original goal but I can possibly have the funds to bore out the cylinders to a total of 4.2L. Now with just big pistons I will be able increase RPM as well which I would not be able to do with a stroker kit. If down the road I am able to get cams I will certainly crush my goals. All of this is just more costly than cams, headwork, and custom intake manifold tho lol. When I finish selling the turbokit I will crack down on which I idea I wish to take on. As for now, I will be saving and optimizing the suspension to where it shouldve been a long time ago. Dont cut corners guys, do it once , do it right.
I see. Have you looked into Feal Suspension coilovers? The company is owned by Odi Bakchis who competed in Formula Drift with his BK2. The coilovers aren't just for drifting though, they have experience in all different types of racing. I've only heard great, great things about them. They're personally the coils I want.

And damn dude, you're really going all out lol. Good to see end users like yourself pushing the envelope of this platform. I believe there's a lot of potential with these cars and that it has yet to be fully realized by the general car tuning community.
ApexEight is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Hyundai Genesis Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Motor is this?? superchode General Discussion 12 12-18-2015 10:57 AM
All Motor 0.o Capt_Strokinov General Discussion 13 07-03-2015 08:14 AM
Starter Motor AKGC 2.0T Discussion 2008-2012 15 09-07-2012 12:37 PM
New motor? krnxbrian 2.0T Discussion 2008-2012 46 07-01-2012 11:10 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome