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2.0 vs 3.8 - Why the 2.0 is getting all the love

18K views 116 replies 41 participants last post by  AKGC 
#1 ·
Can anyone explain why the aftermarket world is catering to 2.0 owners? Is it because the 2.0 is more affordable?

I figure this question has been asked, but I'm having trouble finding the answer via search.

-Merc
 
#31 ·
Ooops... looks like you missed the bunch of supercharged V6s from several months ago, your bad.

http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/13405-another-supercharged-gc-korea.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/13294-sfr-supercharged-380gt.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/11654-386-78-ps-supercharged-3-8-a.html

The Koreans figured out pretty quickly that if you want big power, the 3.8 was the place to start and I happen to agree. I don't expect my car to be there for at least a couple years, but my eventual goal is a supercharger and 450wheel... I don't think it'll be hard.
You're doing a great job setting this thread straight. I'll just add one thing:

500whp with a turbo 3.8 (no internals done, unlike the 2.0t needing internals going over just 350whp):
www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/12127-500hp-3-8-turbo-vs-e55-amg-stg2.html
 
#3 ·
And they need to do that because they dont have the HP out of the box like the 3.8. Thats why I went with the V6, dont need to start dropping cash right away. I drove both, and I knew that the price difference wasnt enough for me not go with the V6. I was satisfied withthe performance of the V6, where I wasnt with the Turbo, and would have started to spend $$ on mods right from day 1.

Be patient, here in Alberta, Ive seen and talked to more 3.8 owners, its just a matter of time for the aftermarket gets there.
 
#6 ·
one word... MAF.

Because of the way that the 3.8 needs to be tuned, and that fact that the 3.8 ecu is a delfi unit.

the 2.0t is a seimens IIRC. and a kin to the tiburon. So there's already been experience in dealing with the software and parameters.

Just give it time. With the way the intake plenum is setup. I can see there being an aftermarket blower in the near future.
 
#9 ·
If you exceed ~75 shot of NITROUS OXIDE on a stock motor, not 'naaaws!', you will most assuredly promote rapid disassembly of your engine, as did many a Tiburon driver back in the day with their aluminum V6s.

The reason is because the turbo motor offers lighter weight with greater and more affordable scalability. For example, with just some software tweaking, the Theta II car is all but caught up to the Lambda car in terms of acceleration and top speed.

From there, the Theta II offers a very easily tweakable machine which you can take anywhere you want, quickly and easily. Ergo, you don't have to deal with two separate valvetrain sets, two sets of headers, four cams, etc so on and so forth.

The morale of the story is that if you want a relatively high HP car out of the box and you have no intention (or wherewithall) to modify it, buy the Lambda car.

If you are a crack addict like me and cannot keep yourself away from the engine bay and under the car, you need to buy the turbo.

The Theta II car offers a superior power to weight ratio the moment you begin tweaking the software. This is by far not the first car to see this sort of aftermarket treatment or even race track treatment.

Take for instance Castrol Tom's Mark IV Supra. Amazingly enough, this car pulled the legendary and much-mythologized 2JZ80A motor and replaced it with the MA70's four cylinder turbo motor.

The rationale? Lighter weight, same/roughly same power, better balance, everyone is happy.

If you are into the primal hobby of American Drag Racing however, there is no replacement for displacement, and you are best off buying the Lambda car.
 
#11 ·
THE BIGGEST REASON THE 2.0 IS RECEIVING MORE R&D IS BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER AND THEREFORE THE MORE COMMONLY OWNED MODEL

The car has a familiar system for everyone to play with.

All this nonsense about a "tuner car" and all that is just sillyness
The genesis coupes handling has already been shown to be incredibly sub par for what it is supposed to be. "beter balance" "better power to weight" all of that is a joke for this car.
 
#13 ·
I agree...its boils down to how much money a vendor is willing to invest and how much they see profiting from it. right now the Turbo is their bread and butter model to rake in the most profits. The 3.8 is going to require more R&D which drives up cost to the consumer, to price levels they probably wont bother to pay

However i disagree on the "tuner car" portion you mentioned. Hyundai marketed the 3.8 as a vehicle for people who are
a) looking for different options from your 335, G37's..etc.

b) those who don't plan to really mod their cars.

This is Pretty evident to me by through the 3.8 GT model getting the "luxurious" brown seating environment and Chrome Whiskers, LED turn Signals, Heated Seats. Properties of cars that many ppl don't mod heavily.

Whether you agree or not. The 2.0t is a "tuners car" (used vaguely...since anyone can classify a car they work on as a tuner) This can be evident through the 2.0t track only coming in a manual and with Hyundai including an r-spec model...whereas the 3.8 can be had with an auto or manual, but isn't coming with an r-spec.....Two entirely different markets IMO.
 
#18 ·
Quartermaster, learn2tarbo is a firestarter. Just ignore him/her. :)
 
#22 ·
Go to the 2.0T section and read up on the reflash. It's not rocket science, bro!!!! :D
 
#29 ·
Ooops... looks like you missed the bunch of supercharged V6s from several months ago, your bad.

http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/13405-another-supercharged-gc-korea.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/13294-sfr-supercharged-380gt.html
http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/11654-386-78-ps-supercharged-3-8-a.html

The Koreans figured out pretty quickly that if you want big power, the 3.8 was the place to start and I happen to agree. I don't expect my car to be there for at least a couple years, but my eventual goal is a supercharger and 450wheel... I don't think it'll be hard.
 
#28 ·
No. the "smart" thing to do is, to mod in said order:

Tires
Brakes
Suspension
HP mods (be it a whole new engine or just bolt ons)

Tires are the only thing that touch the road.
Brakes, because with added HP, you need a way to slow faster.
Suspension to take advantage of the of both points.


I come from the world, where there are not many "bolt-on" parts. Hell over 70% of my 280z , I personally hand fabbed. Having the option to simply bolt on parts is a welcome change of pace for me.
 
#30 ·
Oh my gosh! Not again! Too many old wives tales being thrown around... I gotta get out of here!!!

The 2.0t = Maxxed out turbo'ed motor

The 3.8 = Not Maxxed out, but no turbo

People believe the opposite, that's why. Nuff said. I'm not backing anything up, hit the search button.

I'm out.
 
#32 ·
Eh.. all due respect but the Theta II is not maxed out from the factory. ECU flash yielded +40whp and +100wtq (the Theta II generates more wtq after ECU tuning than the Lambda does stock BTW) just for the record.

FYI also - Castrol Tom's Supra (3SGE 4-cyl motor)

If you can make good power out of a smaller, lighter motor, it's the better choice. Notice I said good power. You guys are starting to argue about 450/500+whp which crosses in the realm of holy wow expensive and holy wow unreliable/unstreetable and only good for drag racing.

If you want to make big power cheap, you should be buying a Chevy crate motor and strapping a blower and/or nitrous/nitromethane to it. In the end there is no replacement for displacement. However the reason the aftermarket and much of the driver base goes after the 2.0T is the balance, weight savings and pwoer-to-weight ratio it offers if you can make it into the 300whp range without spending a ton of cash, which people have already done.

BTW the 75 shot of nitrous comment was based on years of experience with Tibs. We suffered many a casualty in cranks, rods and innocent bystanders because people went past 50-60 shots on that aluminum V6. I'm going to put my money on about a 75 shot before someone plugs a hole in their lambda with nitrous.
 
#34 ·
these engines all suck, i want a v-10 :p my E penis is huge, and i havent added the twin turbos yet.

come on this is getting old already.

Im turbo vs i have 2 more cylinders

Ninjaman LS gen coupe FTW!!!
 
#37 ·
3 reasons:

-Turbos are cooler
-Boost Makes Girls Horny
-More fun to Mod
 
#39 ·
never saw this before?




on a more serious note....one of the reasons to go with the 2.0 is that all the electonics (not just the ecu) are siemens based...as a tech i have not really seen any obscure issues with siemens....Delphi...forget about it...we dealt with bad fuse boxes, bad wiring harhnesses, bad components (including throttle position sensors and accel pedal sensors) delphi is a nightmare!! not to mention nobody has yet to break into them yet. although....


other reasons are...

turbos are just more fun to mod
lighter overall weight
not looking for gobbs of power but if i want it i can have it
better handling
tons of room to work!!! the v6 engine bay is kinda cramped :rolleyes:
fuel mileage...you can get it when you stay out of boost...cant really do that with the v6

i have yet to drive a 2.0 6spd...but i'm sure it will be alot nicier then my elantra. ;)
 
#42 ·
IMO I wouldn't boost the V6.
Give me i/h/e cams and a tune and I will be happy with the 3.8L. I learned my lesson sticking a supercharger on the 2.7L V6 in my Tiburon. Will never add something that wasn't meant to being there in the first place.

I will also be part of the majority of 2.0T owners who will likely only do i/turbo/intercooler/injectors/tbe and a tune. There is a point where the car isn't much of a daily driver anymore. Although the V6 would have provided a much more nicer power delivery then the more harsh (which I like) 2.0T.
 
#43 ·
The problem is that the guys with the 4's seem to think that the V6 owners are saying that the 4 engines suck and are week etc etc, but if I read most of the posts, the guys are just saying they prefer the 6.

I see the same thing in guys that have little man syndrome and penis envy, they get defensive over nothing LOL (just kidding guys, relax).

I do think that the reason some (I SAID SOME!) of the 2.0 guys are so rabid about their engine is cause thats what the bought and now wish they went with the 3.8. Just my opinion is all.
 
#44 ·
This has already been discussed in depth guys... but this the way I see it...

3.8 Track is $2750 more than a 2.0t Track
3.8 has 306 hp/266 tq, 2.0t has 210 hp/223 tq (not talking about WHP, these are just numbers off Hyundai's site so that we aren't speculating crank hp)

For $2750, can you make the 2.0t = the 3.8? Possibly. That would be a 96 hp/43 tq increase. The torque increase would be the easy part.

So ok, lets say that you can. Now you've spent what it would have cost to buy the 3.8 that already makes that power to begin with. So basically the question now would be which car can make the most horsepower for the least money, as well as still be reliable.

We know that Beyond Redline has achieved 466 whp with their 2.0t. Exactly how much money has been spent is kind of an unknown as they are doing their own work so labor cost is not an issue, and would have to be taken into account for anyone else's build. However they have had to replace quite a bit of the engine's internals to get where they are.

We know that Rhys Millen is running a 3.8 (bored to 4.1) that is making 550 hp on only 9 lb of boost, and is running all stock internals except for the camshafts. So the argument that the 3.8 is "not made for boost" is null and void. If you would look at the specs of the 3.8, you would highly suspect that Hyundai built built the engine with boost in mind: 4 bolt mains, under-piston oil jets, etc. Rhys Millen's car sees WAY more abuse than any of us would put on a daily driver, so reliability does not seem to be a factor in boosting the 3.8 either.

Basically my point is this... spend $XXXX on both cars (the same amount), and you will see MORE horsepower out of the 3.8 than you will out of the 2.0t, because the 3.8 already has a nearly 100 hp advantage. Not to mention at some point you will be replacing internals on the 2.0t, and most likely will not have to with the 3.8. Which car comes boosted from the factory is beyond the point, and to say you can make more horsepower with a boosted 2.0 than you can with a boosted 3.8 is simply laughable. When the 2.0t is maxxed out, the 3.8 will still have further potential. And what difference does it make if there are no kits currently available for the 3.8? There will be soon enough.

The only advantage to the 2.0t is that you can do your upgrades a little at a time, making it more affordable, whereas in with the 3.8 it will have to be done all at once. In the end you will spend about the same on both cars anyway.
 
#45 ·
Exactly ....

I'm willing to bet that if the money and ability to get a loan of a given $ amount was not a factor for ANY of the potential GenCoupe buyers out there, they'd sell at least 90% V6 3.8's.

In the real world though, money IS a factor, and the way Hyundai priced these cars, the 4 cyl. falls nicely into the price range where even a younger buyer with decent credit can get approved for the loan without a problem. The 3.8GT is just a bit outside the upper range that many lenders are automatically ok with for these people.

Furthermore, there's the assumption that the smaller engine means lower insurance rates. (In reality, that may not be as big a factor as people think, in the long-haul, *if* it turns out the people driving the turbocharged 4 cyl. models develop a history of wrecking them more often than the V6 owners. But without any repair history to go by, insurance companies are going to initially price the insurance quotes based on the engine size and purchase price of the vehicle.)
 
#49 ·
The V6 is rock solid, there's no point in arguing however it will be the price to go forced induction that will give the intial hesitation. Most companies I've talked to have thrown out numbers STARTING at 4k uninstalled and not tuned. Not to mention your intake, headers and exhaust may be useless after you go FI.

The reason why the 2.0t is the "tuners engine" is because not only is it in the price range most tuners can afford but most mods purchased can lead to a 450whp monster and be purchased and enjoyed one at a time.
 
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