4, 6 coupes - Genesis Forum: GenCoupe Hyundai Genesis Coupe Forums

dcartwright · 03-27-2010, 09:32 PM

Over the last few weeks I have read damn near every review of the Genesis Coupe on the web. One common theme is weather or not you can easily compare the Genesis Coupe to other coupes out there and if so which ones are appropriate. In spite of it being FWD, the first thing that came to mind for me is the Mitsu Eclipse. Both come in 4 and 6 cylinder models where the 6 cylinder is pitched as both more upscale and more performance oriented. The fours get cloth, the sixes get leather. You get a good range of price and configurations between the base 4 and the topped out 6.

That got me thinking about who else offers coupes in 4 and 6 cylinder versions. This is what came to mind:

Honda Accord
Nissan Altima
Toyota Camry

Does anyone else offer one?

Sticky · 03-27-2010, 09:50 PM

We've been over time a few times.

The GC compares in pricing to the FWD 4 bangers and 6 cyl. models that have you described + the entry level domestic pony cars.

The GC V6 compares in platform/layout/category to the G37.

The GC 2.0t compares in platform to nothing on the market right now.

AKGC · 03-28-2010, 12:01 AM

The eclipse is just a cruiser.

They haven't done anything really performance oriented since the 2nd gen version.

SUB-GEN · 03-28-2010, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

We've been over time a few times.

The GC compares in pricing to the FWD 4 bangers and 6 cyl. models that have you described + the entry level domestic pony cars.

The GC V6 compares in platform/layout/category to the G37.

The GC 2.0t compares in platform to nothing on the market right now.

Yeah that's what folks fail to understand. Its in the price range of said cars but it really competes with the G37. The genesis coupe is the best of both worlds imo. The exterior is all sports car from the body shape to the track package appointments with RWD just like a 370Z and then on the inside its a grand tourer with a backseat and a sunroof just like the G37. If you ask me its the perfect definition of a GT/Sports Car and not just a GT like a 3series or A5.

dcartwright · 03-28-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

We've been over time a few times.

The GC compares in pricing to the FWD 4 bangers and 6 cyl. models that have you described + the entry level domestic pony cars.

The GC V6 compares in platform/layout/category to the G37.

The GC 2.0t compares in platform to nothing on the market right now.

I'm really not looking to cover the same ground. Maybe I didn't put my question together correctly. I don't think the GC compares to entry level domestic pony cars. It's not just that the packaging is different, the target market andIt's very different packaging. While I understand that Hyundai bench marked the G37, but only the V6 coupe is a fair comparison there. There's no 4 cylinder G.

So how do y'all feel the GenCoupe compares to other 4/6 coupe offerings? My most likely 2nd choice and the specific vehicle that I used in my negotiations with the Hyundai dealer was a fully loaded Altima 3.5 that a local Nissan dealer was listing for $27,500. Out of the tons of articles I've read, I've only seen one or two that did any real comparison to those other coupes.

WhatsDone · 03-28-2010, 05:49 PM

In terms of features, amenities, and level of luxury, the GC compares with Altima coupe...but right now, there's no such "4/6" coupe that compares with the GC in terms of performance. There is just no way an Altima is going to come close to a GC in handling and track manners.

If FWD vs. RWD isn't a huge issue, then I say the VW GTI compares well with the 2.0T GC in terms of amenities/performance. The Mazdaspeed3 compares well with the 3.8 GC in terms of amenities/performance. The Mazda RX-8 compares with well with the GC too. What the RX-8 lacks in acceleration, it adds in handling prowess. If I remember correctly, at one of Hyundai's earlier press events for the GC, they provided members of the press with the GC and other cars in order to do quick impressions of back-to-back comparison test drives. One of those "other cars" was the RX-8. I think another was the G37.

You can also check out this link:
GenesisDriven | Posts | Hyundai Genesis Coupe Press Live Webcast Event

Hyundai says that the 2.0T has no real competition, but based on price and market segment, Hyundai thinks the 2.0T might compete for market share with the likes of the Mitsu Eclipse and Civic Si.

For the 3.8, Hyundai mentioned the G37, RX-8, and BMW 3-series as targets for their crosshairs.

Personally, I think the GenCoupe is extremely unique. Growing up, I wanted my first car to be something like the Mitsubishi Eclipse (pocket rocket, Japanese styling, good/long list of amenities and features)...but that car grew a tad obese. The reviews of the latest generation were far less positive than those for the previous gen, so I was disappointed. Along came the Gen Coupe, and bam...a relatively affordable/attainable/plausible coupe with some real performance cred (unlike the Eclipse). I'm the type of guy who cares about reviews, and the overwhelming consensus says that the GC rocks. The GC doesn't have everything I want in an ideal 20k-30k coupe, but nothing else comes close for me.

BamaCoupe · 03-28-2010, 10:04 PM

I have no comments on this matter. Ok, maybe I do. As an owner of both (albeit a 2001 Mitsu Eclipse GT Spyder), I find the GC to be a superior vehicle. Obviously 9 years newer, RWD vs. FWD, more power, and an all around better vehicle.

The problems with the Eclipse are the fact that it failed to really better itself with newer models. They did upgrades, sure, but the upgrades were pathetic. I TRIED to like the 2006+ style. I test drive many. I liked the increase in power, but hated the FWD. I felt that the exterior styling was weak. My reservations were more based on the problems with the Interior. The door handle was pathetic. I tested the top of the line model, and the door handle felt so cheap, I thought it would break. Cheapness abounded inside. Nothing felt solid. Fit was poor. And road noise was readily apparent.

Conversely, in the GC, all of the things that turned me off of the Eclipse, felt right in the GC. I've read reviews of how some of the interior feels 'cheap.' Obviously I disagree. Functionality, feel, and placement of interior items in the GC are perfect for me. The seats are fabulous. The NAV system is superb, and very straightforward. The dash is plastic, yeah, I know. It has a good texture, and I don't go around licking my dash. The parts that I routinely touch, are nice. The ride (3.8Track) is great. The comfort during long trips is truly amazing, for a car that has a 'Sport" suspension.

I disagree that the GC is directly compared to the 370Z and G37. Yes, even though Hyundai says so. I believe that the closest competitors are the 350Z, and or the G35. Even though they are slightly older and or previous models, make sense in being the Gen Coupe's competitors. As they were the current models when Hyundai started designing the GC. With that said. Hyundai hit the nail on the head with this car.

Overall, the GC doesn't have a direct competitor at the moment, IMO. It's not a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger competitor. It's not quite a G37/370Z, but darn close. It's a better value than most anything on the market (near it's price point). And it's unique styling will help distinguish it.

Ok, so maybe I have an opinion...

nathansvt · 03-29-2010, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaCoupe

Overall, the GC doesn't have a direct competitor at the moment, IMO. It's not a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger competitor. It's not quite a G37/370Z, but darn close. It's a better value than most anything on the market (near it's price point). And it's unique styling will help distinguish it.

I think the media is having trouble pegging the market for this car. I shopped it against a G37S and chose the Hyundai. This seems to be where Hyundai marketing set their initial targets.

However, the 2010 V6 Mustang and the v6 Camaro are really upsetting the apple cart for the Gen Coupe. They are comparably priced, particularly in terms of walk-away price and have the same front-engine, rear-drive, 2+2 format.

The problem with the pony-car analogy is in styling and cross-shop market. Both the Camaro and Mustang appeal to a buyer nostalgic for american iron who is about as likely to walk into a Hyundai dealer as they are take the gun rack off their truck's rear window. Also, most male muscle car buyers are going in looking at the specs of the V8. If they walk out with a V6, it's a cost compromise, not the starting goal.

As much as I hate to say it, though, the GenCoupe is starting to look underpowered. If you're shopping in the $22-32K range, you can get into cars with the same or better mileage and the same or better power for about the same price. That list includes

Nissan 370Z
2010 Mustang
Chevy Camaro

If Ford sticks an Eco-boost V6 in the Mustang for 2011 at the same price points, it's going to kill everything else in remotely the same category.

The factors that tipped me in favor of the GenCoupe are a few things the others don't have:

Non-retro styling
Great Warranty

WhatsDone · 03-29-2010, 08:51 AM

+1 for BamaCoupe. Due to the timing of the Coupe's development, it compares better with the 350z and G35.

As for uniqueness: I think it's simply the best value. It's got the looks, the performance (maybe not the best, but certainly a lot), etc...but it's also got a ton of standard features with optional features that don't add too much to the price. It's basically a car that seems like it should be priced around 25k-35k instead of 20k-30k...but they used cheaper interior materials, MacPherson suspension, etc to keep the cost down.

nathan:
While the 2011 Mustang does look like a threat in terms of power and mileage, it still doesn't seem to compare well with the Coupe in terms of interior & features. The Mustang's interior is stoic and retro, and to get all the features that the Coupe has, you gotta add on the cost of optional packages. Also, the 370z is significantly more expensive than the Coupe. I definitely agree that pony cars have an entirely different style and aura that attracts people who probably wouldn't like the Coupe's style and aura anyways.

As for Eco-boost, I'm pretty sure Ford said that it won't happen for the Mustang for the near future.

Lastly, one thing that just popped into my head...what about chicks? Lots of females buy the Mustang V6...I wonder if the Gen Coupe will steal any of those sales that stereotypically involve girls buying the car for cool-factor and not for performance. Just throwing that idea out there for kicks. After all, women make up for a decent percentage of sales for the other cars discussed in this topic: Eclipse, Altima coupe, etc.

dcartwright · 03-29-2010, 09:00 AM

I agree. I think BamaCoupe nailed something here. The previous Z/G was probably a more direct competitor.

I see the current Z as more of a competitor than the G in terms of actual shopping due to both the pricing and the cosmetics of the two vehicles. Though I considered both the G and Z in the few months of research and shopping, by the time I had either one configured the way I wanted it, it was just a good bit more than I wanted to spend. Test driving the GC brought it home for me. I didn't feel like I had to make any compromises to get the vehicle I wanted.

Sticky · 03-29-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcartwright

I didn't feel like I had to make any compromises to get the vehicle I wanted.

You did, see my thread in the General Discussion section.

Developping a car to compete with now outdated vehicles is a rubbish excuse IMHO. Hyundai needs to step up. The GC 3.8 was released and it was already at the bottom of the V6 RWD food chain.

dcartwright · 03-29-2010, 09:25 AM

No, _I_ didn't. The car has compromises. Any car that doesn't cost several times what I make in a year has compromises. I, however, got a car that does exactly what I want with the features that I want and it is beautiful and a blast to drive. No compromises at all.

nathansvt · 03-29-2010, 12:07 PM

It will be interesting to see how the GC compares the upcoming FT86 Toyobaru. I was going to hold out for that vehicle, but it seems that the GC ticks all the boxes.

WhatsDone · 03-29-2010, 12:29 PM

^Nathan: werd up. FT86 will make things more interesting. In fact, there's another thread that went way off-topic because of FT86 discussion:
2011 Genesis Coupe

orenj9 · 03-31-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatsDone

While the 2011 Mustang does look like a threat in terms of power and mileage, it still doesn't seem to compare well with the Coupe in terms of interior & features. The Mustang's interior is stoic and retro, and to get all the features that the Coupe has, you gotta add on the cost of optional packages.

Also, the 370z is significantly more expensive than the Coupe.

That's the only think that turns me off about the Mustang. I kind of hope Ford decides on a two-seater that uses the V6 Mustang drive-train, but with IRS and a more modern look. I think they could make a damn good $25k Z killer.

I would love a Z, but there is no way in hell you're going to find one for under $30k. I've been looking for one for a while

.

BamaCoupe · 04-01-2010, 12:28 AM

The fact is that my opinion states that the GC is the best looking/best value/best in-class vehicle for this price. And that the major problem with the Mustang, is that it is a Ford. It's also a dime-a-dozen car. I went to Hawaii, a while back, and EVERY freaking car on the road was a Mustang. Even the scooters, were Mustangs! I don't like the idea that I will have to press the Panic button on my keyfob to figure out which of the 300 Mustangs in the parking lot are mine. Same goes for Camaro, with the obvious distinction that it is made by Government Motors. :-)

BTW, its been nearly a month without my GC, and the withdrawals are killing me...

WhatsDone · 04-01-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Developping a car to compete with now outdated vehicles is a rubbish excuse IMHO. Hyundai needs to step up. The GC 3.8 was released and it was already at the bottom of the V6 RWD food chain.

If you're looking at it from a by-the-numbers perspective, then yes, the GC 3.8 seems out-classed. If you look at it from a more holistic view and consider the overall package, you still have a winner. Out of all the reviews and comparos I've seen, the conclusion is always something similar to: the GC isn't the fastest, but its overall value can't be overlooked. The GC's satisfaction per dollar was high enough to earn the "win" from Edmunds in their comparison of GC vs. G37 despite the fact that the G37 was technically better in most ways. MotorTrend's GC vs. Camaro also awarded GC the winner due to intangibles (rather than just looking at the V6 RWD "food chain").

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaCoupe

The fact is that my opinion states that the GC is the best looking/best value/best in-class vehicle for this price. And that the major problem with the Mustang, is that it is a Ford. It's also a dime-a-dozen car. I went to Hawaii, a while back, and EVERY freaking car on the road was a Mustang. Even the scooters, were Mustangs! I don't like the idea that I will have to press the Panic button on my keyfob to figure out which of the 300 Mustangs in the parking lot are mine. Same goes for Camaro, with the obvious distinction that it is made by Government Motors. :-)

BTW, its been nearly a month without my GC, and the withdrawals are killing me...

1. Hawaii probably has a higher density of rental cars per square mile than most places, and everyone knows that the Mustang is a popular rental car.
2. I wouldn't mind owning a common car so long as it met/exceeded my standards.

khergan · 04-03-2010, 12:49 PM

It's an interesting subject.

The 3.8 appears to be targetting the same market as the G37/Z370 market. Personally, when I look at the 3.8 track it's like those two cars had a love child and you get something in the middle. It's got almost the same horsepower/torque as those cars, the performance-oriented nature of the 370, but a backseat and certain GT features like the G37. I think it's a good middle ground option for people who want power but also some style and a little bit of functionality.

The 2.0t is kind of fuzzy. Right now, the only similar cars are the RX-8 and the Civic Si coupe. All these cars fit into the "sporty coupe with great handling" dynamic, but they all are substantially different in one way or the other. The 2.0t (to me) appeals to a younger crowd, people who want a quick, sporty car with the tuner appeal.

Personally, I think that they should take the car in two different directions. Honestly, they either need to beef up the 3.8 or put it in a "entry lux" category. Personally I'd rather see the 3.8 have more luxury features and be marketed as the upscale coupe that runs with G37/A5/CLK type cars. The 2.0t should be more entry level car that focuses on performance enthusiasts. It definitely needs a power upgrade, though.

The hard thing right now is that there is no clear separation of the targetted audience for the two engines. If they beef up the 2.0t with the new GDI twin scroll engine, then there will be little incentive for anybody to purchase the V6.

If I were the CEO of Hyundai, I'd retool the line after a few years to be the GC 4.6 and make the turbo a 2.4T. That way you would have a clear separation of roles... my ideas:

GC 4.6 - has a host of luxury features more on line with the Gen sedan. High HP, lower modability. Price 31-35k.

GC 2.4T - straight performance oriented, similar features to what the track models have now. Beefed up turbo, forged internals. Price 24-30k.

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