Gencoupe Suspension Revealed - Page 9 - Genesis Forum: GenCoupe Hyundai Genesis Forums
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#161 Old 11-10-2010, 11:17 AM
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I would love to see a decent suspension setup for the Genesis. I'm just waiting it out until TIC or someone else decides to make the leap.
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#162 Old 11-10-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ksmith5rs View Post
The comment made about the Korean market having parts, and the U.S. not I believe is due to the fact that the Korean consumer is willing to pay for quality parts. A lot of the guys like myself buy their cars and pay cash upfront for them. I get the feeling a lot of the buyers in the U.S are strapped for cash, and do not have the funds to pay for quality aftermarket parts. When I hear statements like someone having to save up for a set of wheels or an exhaust it reinforces that perception. Not trying to offend anyone, just an observation of mine. Had a guy drop off his car and have a twin turbo setup installed in his 3.8. If they have the cash and want to mod the car they do it but with quality name brand parts(by Korean market standards). I totally understand the vendors point of view in the matter. They need to have a strong demand for the parts they manufacture and sell. Can't really go by forum interest, the numbers are too small. maybe in two or 3 years you may have a strong aftermarket with more affordable quality parts. I would like to pay less also but without a larger number of people(buyers) willing to pony up to support the vendors in this fledgling market, the outlook is not good for getting additional vendors to support this platform.
What kind of financing deals do you get in Korea? In Canada they were offering 0% up to 5 yrs, even as low as 2.25 for 7 yrs. Even if you have all the cash in the world, it doesnt make sense to pay for it all when you have access to such inexpensive borrowing.

I agree though, most Genesis owners arent willing to pay for quality.
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#163 Old 11-10-2010, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
As I read this thread I was pretty excited because I felt like the poster really knew his stuff and was someone that I could spend my money with.

Not sure why the GC isn't getting the support? Is it because they have just sold less of these than other comparable cars.

Anyways, I will basically pay 'whatever' for a new set of struts for my Track but it would have to accomplish a few things for me:

1) Track proven improved performance.
2) Streetable damping rates.
3) It has to be at least .5-1.5" lower than stock
. I read the reasons why this car shouldn't be lowered. I would only purchase new suspension if it had a nice compromise between improvement and a mild drop. It just looks too good to not have it dropped at least a very small amount and it's a compromise I'm willing to make.
+1.... on the bold.

I want a high quality suspension that actually improves my performance on the track, yet can still be daily driven even if a little more harsh. I would like to see a slight drop of .75 to 1.5 inches to give it a little better stance.

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Originally Posted by ksmith5rs View Post
The comment made about the Korean market having parts, and the U.S. not I believe is due to the fact that the Korean consumer is willing to pay for quality parts. A lot of the guys like myself buy their cars and pay cash upfront for them. I get the feeling a lot of the buyers in the U.S are strapped for cash, and do not have the funds to pay for quality aftermarket parts. When I hear statements like someone having to save up for a set of wheels or an exhaust it reinforces that perception. Not trying to offend anyone, just an observation of mine. Had a guy drop off his car and have a twin turbo setup installed in his 3.8. If they have the cash and want to mod the car they do it but with quality name brand parts(by Korean market standards). I totally understand the vendors point of view in the matter. They need to have a strong demand for the parts they manufacture and sell. Can't really go by forum interest, the numbers are too small. maybe in two or 3 years you may have a strong aftermarket with more affordable quality parts. I would like to pay less also but without a larger number of people(buyers) willing to pony up to support the vendors in this fledgling market, the outlook is not good for getting additional vendors to support this platform.
I agree & understand where TiC, MODE & other quality aftermarket manufacturers are coming from regarding the lack of interest in this platform to validate the investment in R&D along with stock piling parts on the shelf to get a good enough price to make a profit, then no one purchase said parts.


I will hold out until TiC makes their coil overs available & will ride on stock height until then. Only if I'm told by TiC that they have decided against developement of their coil overs will I purchase KW V3s or ARK DTPs etc.

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#164 Old 11-10-2010, 04:42 PM
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Progress made some .80 and 1.0 drop and they have good reputation in other vehicules and custom racing cars.

Thats its the way I will go.

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#165 Old 11-10-2010, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tufast View Post
I will hold out until TiC makes their coil overs available & will ride on stock height until then. Only if I'm told by TiC that they have decided against development of their coil overs will I purchase KW V3s or ARK DTPs etc.
Were they considering developing their own coils from the ground up; or a package setup like they offer for the Imprezas? The Progress springs combined with some sort of performance damper and camber plates would be awesome.

With the GC community growing slower than expected, along with herrafrush tendencies, Koni and likewise won't invest in the market.
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#166 Old 12-11-2011, 01:49 PM
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So I'm guessing all development for real suspension parts was abandoned?
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#167 Old 12-15-2011, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by krayzkrn View Post
Were they considering developing their own coils from the ground up; or a package setup like they offer for the Imprezas? The Progress springs combined with some sort of performance damper and camber plates would be awesome.

With the GC community growing slower than expected, along with herrafrush tendencies, Koni and likewise won't invest in the market.
They had a set of Koni dampers built to their specs for testing on their shop car & they were talking with AST & I think Swift about products before they backed off the platform.

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#168 Old 12-15-2011, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tufast View Post
They had a set of Koni dampers built to their specs for testing on their shop car & they were talking with AST & I think Swift about products before they backed off the platform.
I spoke with TiC earlier this week about this. The Genesis has not really blossomed in the way everyone had hoped, on top of everyone wanting 100.00 parts for their mad low stance bro. Pathetic.

Maybe in time someone will take the time to make quality parts for this car and fix the otherwise useless stock suspension. I probably won't even own the car by then, but I hope for the rest of you something pans out.
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#169 Old 12-15-2011, 04:38 PM
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I do hope that at least half the people who make comments about the gencoupe's suspension being shitty can actually drive their car to the limit of the car's potential...

I personally think the car's suspension is fine. More travel, some length adjustable tie rods end links and you are good. The stock spring rates could be better, but I'd like to challenge anybody with performance coilovers on a couple hill passes and see if they really could justify their argument.

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#170 Old 12-15-2011, 06:17 PM
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I changed the tires from 225/45/18 to 235/35/18 on track suspension. The is lower, handles better but I now feel the bumps more. I have coilovers coming in but My max drop will be 1" on all corners due to handling issues.

Hopefully it will offer me slightly better ride also.
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#171 Old 12-15-2011, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tufast View Post
+1.... on the bold.

I want a high quality suspension that actually improves my performance on the track, yet can still be daily driven even if a little more harsh. I would like to see a slight drop of .75 to 1.5 inches to give it a little better stance.
Heck, my car would never see a track, but I would want improved street performance for daily driving and back roads / canyon runs, with the same desire of a slight drop to improve looks, too. So correcting understeer and the lack of travel, along with the bounciness, and improve the looks with a slight drop.
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#172 Old 12-16-2011, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tufast View Post
I want a high quality suspension that actually improves my performance on the track, yet can still be daily driven even if a little more harsh.
Have you looked at simply having something built? It'll cost slightly more than an off the shelf solution, but the end result is worth it. A few years ago, I had exactly this problem with another car. Nobody was buildling a quality coilover kit for <$5k. I had small shop fab up housing for a well-proven shock and was off to the races and saved significant coin.

Most folks think you can do this for $2k, but the reality is that you can't. With the exception of bilstein, high-quality automotive dampers _start_ at $500 each.

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#173 Old 12-16-2011, 08:19 AM
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Interesting discussion here!

That earlier quoted comment from the S. Korean guy talking about the money situation in the U.S. with our cars is definitely interesting ....

Is that really true, that most S. Korean car owners just pay in cash for their new vehicle purchases? I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I'm pretty sure the typical U.S. based customer for a $20K - $30K vehicle like a Genesis Coupe is earning a total annual salary of possibly as little as, say, $35,000-$40,000/yr. (Perhaps someone in automotive sales could chime in with more accurate numbers?)

Certainly, some people earn far more than that and still want one of these cars.... I'm just pointing out that in many cases, you're easily talking about GenCoupe owners spending 1/2 to 2/3rds. of the total amount of money they make in a year to buy one. Given that, you really wouldn't expect many of them to be in a position to just buy it up-front in cash.

As for sanengo's comments? I doubt I drive my car to the limits of its potential or consider myself capable of doing so safely. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion of its suspension setup. I can tell simply by potholes in the roads and other road surface flaws that this suspension needs more travel. When you hear and feel it hitting the bump-stops on bumps you can drive over at similar speeds in every other car or truck you've driven and not notice a thing, that tells you something's wrong.

I'd never call it "shitty", and in most respects, I think it feels pretty "tight" and handles well. I'm just saying that for me, its tendency to hit the bump-stops seems like a BIG negative that should have been addressed from the factory before it was ever sold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanengo View Post
I do hope that at least half the people who make comments about the gencoupe's suspension being shitty can actually drive their car to the limit of the car's potential...

I personally think the car's suspension is fine. More travel, some length adjustable tie rods end links and you are good. The stock spring rates could be better, but I'd like to challenge anybody with performance coilovers on a couple hill passes and see if they really could justify their argument.

- Former Genesis Coupe 3.8GT owner, now driving a Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6
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#174 Old 12-18-2011, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by donour View Post
Have you looked at simply having something built? It'll cost slightly more than an off the shelf solution, but the end result is worth it. A few years ago, I had exactly this problem with another car. Nobody was buildling a quality coilover kit for <$5k. I had small shop fab up housing for a well-proven shock and was off to the races and saved significant coin.

Most folks think you can do this for $2k, but the reality is that you can't. With the exception of bilstein, high-quality automotive dampers _start_ at $500 each.

donour
Well, I went ahead & got something to hold me over. A set of used BC BR coil-overs with about 3k miles on them. They have custom spring rates of 12kg (F) & 10kg (R) along with custom dampning. I went with a Eibach adjustable front & rear swaybars to compliment them. Once I get them dialed in, I will try to give some feedback.


@sanego, I agree that the factory track suspension is not bad, otherwise I would not have driven on it for 2yrs. However, I really feel that the suspension wasn't balanced front to rear regarding the way it handles bumps, esp off camber undulating bumps.
I still want something better later on, but my finances keep losing ground causing me to have to make compromises. I'm pretty keen on the Stance GR+3 coil-overs w/seperate reservoirs. They seem to be as good as the AST offerings for other platforms & I'm pretty sure I can get a good deal on them. However, I'm paying close attention to what MAX USA is coming up with. I'm not as familiar with their products, but they certainly have gotten my attention....although the gold & copper plating is a little on the bright side.


P.S I still have high hopes TiC will jump back on board later on once the market becomes viable again. Hell, they are the only manufacturer's decal I will run on the outside of my car that is not an actually sponsor of mine...That's how loyal I am to them. If they do come back into play, their suspension will be what I go with.

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Last edited by Tufast; 12-18-2011 at 05:18 AM. Reason: P.S
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#175 Old 12-18-2011, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tufast View Post
Well, I went ahead & got something to hold me over. A set of used BC BR coil-overs with about 3k miles on them. They have custom spring rates of 12kg (F) & 10kg (R) along with custom dampning. I went with a Eibach adjustable front & rear swaybars to compliment them. Once I get them dialed in, I will try to give some feedback.

[snip]

I still want something better later on, but my finances keep losing ground causing me to have to make compromises. I'm pretty keen on the Stance GR+3 coil-overs w/seperate reservoirs. They seem to be as good as the AST offerings for other platforms & I'm pretty sure I can get a good deal on them. However, I'm paying close attention to what MAX USA is coming up with. I'm not as familiar with their products, but they certainly have gotten my attention....although the gold & copper plating is a little on the bright side.
I can certainly sympathize with the financial situation. I spent years trying to race on a college students budget. It wasn't pretty. One inexpensive thing you can do for a huge improvement is get appropriate spring rates. "12kg (F) & 10kg (R)" indicates that nobody was paying attention when developing this application. The suspension geometry of the GC dictates higher rates in the rear.

A high quality racing spring costs $70-100, something like hyperco or eibach. I'm pretty confident in saying that a new set of springs -- with good rates -- will be the best improvement you can make to that setup. It'll also be pretty cheap. The exact rates are definitely up for debate. There'll be a camp of "big bar" folks and a camp of "small bar" folks.

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#176 Old 12-18-2011, 05:51 AM
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The best way to increase the handling so far is replace the tires with lower profile when the OEM tires needs replacing. That will drop the 0.5" to 1".

suspension is good enough until high performance aftermarket stunts comes out. I am not too keen on using coilover thats available now for genesis coupe do to reliability and how long they would last.

looks like either way , springs/stunts combo or coiloverss , its not going to be cheap for parts that needs to be replaced every 50K-80K miles.
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#177 Old 12-19-2011, 05:47 AM
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I can certainly sympathize with the financial situation. I spent years trying to race on a college students budget. It wasn't pretty. One inexpensive thing you can do for a huge improvement is get appropriate spring rates. "12kg (F) & 10kg (R)" indicates that nobody was paying attention when developing this application. The suspension geometry of the GC dictates higher rates in the rear.

A high quality racing spring costs $70-100, something like hyperco or eibach. I'm pretty confident in saying that a new set of springs -- with good rates -- will be the best improvement you can make to that setup. It'll also be pretty cheap. The exact rates are definitely up for debate. There'll be a camp of "big bar" folks and a camp of "small bar" folks.

donour
Yeah I tend to agree that these coil-overs are far from perfect. I'm actually using these as a test bed to determine better what will work. I've only had them on for a couple of weeks & can see several flaws including too damn stiff. I'm pretty sure I will be reinstalling the OEM track suspension soon, but with the Eibach sways it should still handle pretty well.

Looks like I will just have to save until I get a pretty good chunk of change & hopefully by then some really good proper setups will be available to choose from or I may just have to do like you mentioned having my own built to my specs. I'm leaning toward 8kg (F) & 10kg (R) for spring rates though.

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The best way to increase the handling so far is replace the tires with lower profile when the OEM tires needs replacing. That will drop the 0.5" to 1".

suspension is good enough until high performance aftermarket stunts comes out. I am not too keen on using coilover thats available now for genesis coupe do to reliability and how long they would last.

looks like either way , springs/stunts combo or coiloverss , its not going to be cheap for parts that needs to be replaced every 50K-80K miles.
My tires have already been replaced & it did help. I agree that the Track suspension is OK & done its job thus far, but after 2yrs I'm ready for change. I don't expect my suspension to last more than 50-80k anywho w/o being rebuilt. By that time even if a dampner hasn't failed, it is weakened to the point that it needs to be rebuilt for optimal performance.

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#178 Old 12-19-2011, 06:21 AM
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Looks like I will just have to save until I get a pretty good chunk of change & hopefully by then some really good proper setups will be available to choose from or I may just have to do like you mentioned having my own built to my specs. I'm leaning toward 8kg (F) & 10kg (R) for spring rates though.
That's probably not a bad place to start for a car that is mostly street driven. It gives you decent natural frequencies, although you may want more rear spring to get appropriate balance. Ride quality is much more affected by damper forces than springrates. Stiff != harsh.

Have you read Dennis Grant's webpage on setting up autocross cars? It provides good, practical setup advice.

Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - ATW Home Page

The next step from there would be engineering texts such M&M and the dixon shock absorber book. Don't be afraid to crunch some numbers.

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#179 Old 12-19-2011, 06:53 AM
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So far in My garage I have two suspension systems that I will try down the road. I am not type of person who likes take suspension apart when I really have no issues since I do not drive fast nor track the car. I just want My GC to sound mean and pretty fast on a straight line. I lave "PRO KIT" springs and KW V3 coilovers that I have not installed . They both seem well made and I also weighed them compare to OEM struts. Similar weight in front and KW V3 were much more heavier in rear just like HKS coilovers I had before. I been riding on Eibach anti sway bars for almost two years on soft settings with track suspension. This is pretty decent set up and when I went from 225/45/18f 245/45/18r to 235/35/35f 265/35/18r . The car felt more rigid and stiff but the car was lower , this helped the handle better around the corners.
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#180 Old 02-29-2012, 05:11 AM
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