Cooling fan low speed always ON after PRW Stage 2 - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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Cooling fan low speed always ON after PRW Stage 2

Does anyone else have this "problem"?

I've flashed the car roughly around June-July time frame of this year and ever since I've noticed my fan low speed being always on right after engine start. It seems like it is an uncommon thing with PRW as I've heard other people having this issue with other canned tunes such as BR for example.

Anyway, at that time I was going through some cooling related issues (https://www.gencoupe.com/engine/41377...an-shroud.html) due to failing Mishimoto radiator, so I DID ask Bill if he could make any changes to the tune and have my fan come on a little earlier than it does from the factory and of course that question was automatically rejected because he does not make any changes to his tunes per customer's request.

Alright, well, since I figured that the actual problem was in fact in Mishimoto radiator, I then installed the CSF and I had zero issues after installation. Then I go and flash PRW Stage 2 and since day one the low speed stays on all the time... I was OK with that during summer because it's super hot here and I didn't mind extra cooling that is, but it's getting colder and I do not need the fan to stay on...

Having that said, something makes me think that the tune was in fact customized per my request ANYWAY even though he said that he's NOT going to do it. I may be wrong though but I did not see other people questioning this before and I seem to be the first one. I called Bill after flashing the car and asked him why the fan stays on and he said something about the OEM firmware (base flash) probably being a different version from the one he used to use to build the tune, I don't remember exactly.

So again, I am not complaining, I just want to see if anyone else got this and if there's a way to "fix" this and have the fan operate just like stock prior to flashing.

Thanks.
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I just tried disconnecting the drop voltage resistor and only keep the high speed via shorting the plug with a small wire and the second I started the car - the fan came on spinning on high.... I know this trick used to work prior to flashing... This must be a tune related problem.
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The powerx screws up the fan logic, just the way it is. Put it on a switch

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My biggest complaint with my BR tune. They told me that no matter what they tried the lo speed fan would always be on. Waste of gas and wear and tear on the fan motor.

What happens when the lo speed fan relay is pulled out?

https://www.gencoupe.com/electrical-l...ontroller.html

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Originally Posted by Red Raspberry View Post
My biggest complaint with my BR tune. They told me that no matter what they tried the lo speed fan would always be on. Waste of gas and wear and tear on the fan motor.

What happens when the lo speed fan relay is pulled out?

https://www.gencoupe.com/electrical-l...ontroller.html
I just went and tried this. I turned the car on and of course the fan came on on LOW speed. I pull the LOW speed relay out and the fan still spins on LOW.... Then I pull the second relay, which is HIGH speed and only then it shut off. Then I put the LO speed relay back in - nothing... Once I put the HIGH speed relay back in - fan came on again (not sure which speed it was on). Next, I turn the AC on (half way) and the fan seems to continue spinning on LOW speed. Next, I put AC on MAX and then the HIGH speed came on. Finally, I turn the AC off and the fan continues spinning on HIGH speed....

Something is definitely not right. I really do not want to put so much stress on my fan even though it has been this way since June... Again, it was hot back then, so I did not pay attention to that but now it's getting colder and I really don't need this......

I just had no idea I would have to deal with this with PRW tune. I hope @BadBoyBill would chine in on this.
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The way the two relays are wired if the hi speed is commanded on the lo speed relay also is on.

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Anyways, the tune isn't working right and I don't have to be wiring anything additional to have this working right as before. I will email PRW about this.
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I know this isnt a review but besides this issue how do you like your tune?
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Because i plan on getting it next week
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Originally Posted by FutureAlpha View Post
I know this isnt a review but besides this issue how do you like your tune?
Besides the fan problem, sometimes I have a feeling like the tune simply doesn't work in some certain conditions in terms of rev lag. It feels like it has 'on/off' switch that is... From time to time I feel like I drive an untuned car mainly because of rev lag which occurs and stays even longer than it was stock. The thing I noticed is that it normally happens with A/C off; however, when A/C is on, the rev lag is never there and RPMs drop quick the second I let off the gas pedal but with A/C off sometimes it holds RPMs for a couple of seconds, especially when I come close to traffic lights and/or down shift (engine brake)...

The car definately feels a lot stronger after the reflash. When I watch the boost under WOT, it may go as high as 17 PSI (according to torque app), depending on which gear I am in but my in-car boost gauge never shows anything higher than 14-15 PSI, so I don't know which reading to believe.

Other than occasional rev lag and this stupid low fan speed that stays on all the time - I don't have anything else abnormal to report.

This morning it was pretty chilly and because I drive on highway most of the time and with my CSF radiator, I never saw my temps go over 170 degrees, which is below the normal operating temperature. I need get this fixed asap because it will get colder soon.


If you do decide to get the tune - would you come back to this thread and let us know if your fan stays on all the time too?
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Originally Posted by Red Raspberry View Post
The way the two relays are wired if the hi speed is commanded on the lo speed relay also is on.
Ok, I emailed Bill, so we'll see what he says. I hope it's a matter of just reflashing to a different version of the tune or w/e because I really really don't want to get into wiring an external controller and want the car to be controlling the fan as before.
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Thank you. How are your AFRs? Yes i will report back no problem. I hope you can resolve this issue
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Thank you. How are your AFRs? Yes i will report back no problem. I hope you can resolve this issue
Driving with no boost it fluctuates from 15.1-15.6 and under WOT it is approximately 11.3-11.7

And no, the problem is not going to be resolved, so be ready for this as well... Just got a reply from @BadBoyBill

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Unfortunately i've tried many things to get the fans working right(fully off unless needed) with no success, it has something to do with how the base ECU code was originally created caused all "flashed" via OBD2 port tunes using maps based on or from PowerAxel boot and code files to have this issue.

After looking at your thread i see your response/complaint that the tune feels on and off and that is due to the conditions not being optimal for increased performance, you should see this as a good thing
I wonder what those conditions are? I mean, what are we looking for? My temperature gauges show good numbers, IATs are good. Tell me what else I can do to make it better per se? It's hard for me to even try to believe that "this is a good thing" because I don't even know what's going on and what causes this? I will try to be more positive next time, but I can't guarantee it.

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this is one of the reasons why none of my tunes have blown engines up and adding an upgraded radiator or changing your temp sensor on a daily driven car is highly unneeded and also part of your issue as the coolant temp is considered when determining if the increased performance is acceptable or not by the engine, a temp of 191F must be reached for full performance.

William
Alright, changing a radiator should do nothing but good things regardless of driving conditions... As I said in my email, occasionally I take the car to autocross events and with stock radiator I was getting very close to boiling my coolant. The problem was resolved with CSF radiator. In fact, I've had this radiator installed long before I got the tune from you and never had a problem.

Oh, I never changed the temp sensor, not sure where that came from?

And

Quote:
The best solution is the same one Red pointed out to you, a few customers who live in very cold regions like Canada have done the same

https://www.gencoupe.com/electrical-l...ontroller.html

I don't modify my tunes as they were made for specific sets of hardware including stock radiator and fans(which like i said i can't fix the issue with the fan staying on), so short of the above the only other solution would be going with another tuning option such as a haltech, waiting for the self tuning to be released or finding another tuning option.

Sorry i can't be of more help on the matter.
Anyways, it is what it is but I do wish this ISSUE was noted before I bought the tune. Although, no, it is not a deal breaker but still, now I am forced to look for a resolution because I do not want to deal with an external fan controller and all that.

So, taking my radiator into consideration which cools the coolant a lot faster than stock and the tune that doesn't shut off the fan, I suspect I will never be able to reach normal operating temperature ESPECIALLY in the winter time. As I said in this thread, I was driving on highway this morning and my coolant temp was 170 degrees, while the oil was around 185 degrees. I do not have an aftermarket thermostat nor oil cooler.

Does anyone know any other canned tunes that don't have such problem?
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I would also like to know if there are any other ways to manually control the fan with a in-car switch for instance? I just need to know do I disable both relays or just one of them? As far as I understand, they both have common ground, so what if I just remove the LO speed relay completely and control the ground for the HI speed relay with a switch and keep high speed only? How does that sound?
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Originally Posted by MZ777 View Post
Driving with no boost it fluctuates from 15.1-15.6 and under WOT it is approximately 11.3-11.7

And no, the problem is not going to be resolved, so be ready for this as well... Just got a reply from @BadBoyBill



I wonder what those conditions are? I mean, what are we looking for? My temperature gauges show good numbers, IATs are good. Tell me what else I can do to make it better per se? It's hard for me to even try to believe that "this is a good thing" because I don't even know what's going on and what causes this? I will try to be more positive next time, but I can't guarantee it.



Alright, changing a radiator should do nothing but good things regardless of driving conditions... As I said in my email, occasionally I take the car to autocross events and with stock radiator I was getting very close to boiling my coolant. The problem was resolved with CSF radiator. In fact, I've had this radiator installed long before I got the tune from you and never had a problem.

Oh, I never changed the temp sensor, not sure where that came from?

And



Anyways, it is what it is but I do wish this ISSUE was noted before I bought the tune. Although, no, it is not a deal breaker but still, now I am forced to look for a resolution because I do not want to deal with an external fan controller and all that.

So, taking my radiator into consideration which cools the coolant a lot faster than stock and the tune that doesn't shut off the fan, I suspect I will never be able to reach normal operating temperature ESPECIALLY in the winter time. As I said in this thread, I was driving on highway this morning and my coolant temp was 170 degrees, while the oil was around 185 degrees. I do not have an aftermarket thermostat nor oil cooler.

Does anyone know any other canned tunes that don't have such problem?
This why i hate that you guys are always copy pasting emails between myself and you. The readers on this forum get a very one-sided and not always my complete email or you are "quoting" out of context. I respond promptly to your email so you have information not because i don't want to come on the forums and chat about it but because i work a full time job and don't have time to post a long winded complete explanation as to why things are the way they are.

Here is simply WHY coolant temp needs to be at a certain temp and why all the moons and stars must be aligned for "full performance"

An engine is not ready for increased boost/added fuel when it's cold or not up to "manufacture operating temp" which from Hyundai is 191F. Why is 191F the magic number? Well some smart engineers tested for many years somewhere determining that for the 2.0T this was the right temp for fuel to be properly burned AT WOT without damaging the piston rings, washing the walls and diluting your engine oil, and to keep a lot of other things from breaking. A cold engine is just as fragile as an overheated engine.

Fuel may seem like fuel to most but fuel inside(more so too much fuel) of a cylinder that isn't properly up to temp is like sand paper on the cylinder walls and causes much of the fuel to not be "spent/burned" properly.

Take this into consideration, what happens when you spill fuel on a hot engine or surface? it evaporates very rapidly into the air, now what happens when you drop it on something cold? it just sits there. the inside of a cylinder is no different, now why did i choose to keep the stock 191F coolant temp well i tested with many lower temps and saw a decrease in performance even a few degrees(i tried up to 20F below 191F and every degree in between with a loss in power the colder i went).

Cummins engineers did a bunch of testing a few years ago on engines to determine the damage that can be caused from a cold engine and it was shown that the wear on an engine was something like 400-500 times that of an engine that was up to "proper operating temp"

I love that you guys act like i just threw some **** together and hoped for the best when i created my tunes, if i had my life would of been much easier creating my tunes but then i'd have blown up engines all over the place, i spent countless hours creating all of my tunes testing everything i could think to possibly test for to create reliable, daily "canned" tunes that would work for 99% of the customers.

As far as the fan being on, i honestly don't think the longevity of the fan will be impacted as much as you might think, i have a few customers with well over 50k-75k miles on my stage 2 tune and still on stock fan and never an issue, now the fan i agree shouldn't be on but that's what i was dealt starting with the PowerAxel boot and code(not the tune as my tunes were created from a 100% stock tune but since the tune was pulled from an ECU by Poweraxel's partner in Korea they goofed the HEX somewhere to cause the fan issues).

So end of story is YES my tunes REQUIRE coolant temp to be 191F before you can obtain full performance, YES my tunes keep the low speed fan on when the car is running. If you want to run your engine at a lower temp and full boost you are welcome to, just go buy a Haltech and in a few months when your piston rings are gone or you blow your engine up there will be plenty of companies on here willing to sell you a complete engine rebuild for thousands of dollars, it's pretty simple my tune(s) keep you from having that issue, or you can perform some very basic wiring and wire up your own controller on the fan and still have all the safety checks to make sure your engine last for years to come.

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So why a 180 Tstat if we need 191? I would love to have a 191 as I get no where near that. 185 is about the highest I have seen when driving.

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So why a 180 Tstat if we need 191? I would love to have a 191 as I get no where near that. 185 is about the highest I have seen when driving.
i assume this is so it can keep the coolant no higher than the 191F-200F range as the "cool" coolant will start to flood into the engine at 180F but with engine temp it will be more around 191F?

I left the stock temp regulation in all of my tunes as it seemed like the best option since the temps below that saw a loss in performance and i didn't want to make it higher, making it even harder to get to the utopia of acceptable engine warmth.

Does it suck to have a car not wanting to get up to temp yes, but is it easily bypassed yes, throw a manual boost controller on the car and problem solved as the fuel/timing is all based on actual pressure/rpm

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The ECT is on the outflow of the head. Should be reading the highest temps and they drop from there.

Before the radiator up grade the coolant temp would go over 250F, oil temp was over 275 on the track in hot weather. 4 laps and a cool down. But I don't track it anymore.

Sure would like a 190F t-stat. I wonder if there is one out there from another car manufacturer that would fit?

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@BadBoyBill

Bill, I just read your message and I do want to thank you for a such a thorough reply. I also work full time, sometimes overtime but because this is the only vehicle I have available to drive, I decided to take my time and explain myself in detail the best I can, so I can be clear on things and get my answers. Bill, don't get me wrong, I am not bashing on your tune... Before I posted everything, I searched and could not find anything related to my issue, so I posted it here. Besides, me copying our conversation here is for the sake of this community in case if someone else runs into something similar in future and by no means it was meant to put you on spot, I don't do those kind of things man.

So, as far as I understand, if I had my stock radiator in place - an always running fan would not be a problem and the temps would be all right because the stock rad can only cool so much coolant as opposed to the one I got now. Having that said, my only options are: 1) put stock radiator back in place (obviously not gonna do that) 2) Get a fan controller...

Haltech would be a very good solution (not just because of the fan LOL) and frankly I would be all over it if the price was not as ridiculous as it seems to me at least. I suspect the reason the tune is acting strange or works in "safe" mode that is - is because the car does not get a chance to get up to ~190 degrees.
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I fixed this issue by getting a BTR tune.. haven't had a CEL in 2 years since. Now really it's not BBB's fault or BR. It's just what the powerx does and believe me i've worked with BR on it. There isn't a solution

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