Almost 3 Years Later and No End-User Tuning Solution - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-01-2015 Thread Starter
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Almost 3 Years Later and No End-User Tuning Solution

So here we are, almost 3 years after the 2nd Gen 2.0T Coupe was released, and we are still having to rely on canned tunes and hack job retrofits from one manufacturer meant for the 1st Gen that can't control the wastegate or A/C. (Kudos to you guys for having the time, knowledge, and determination to find a solution).

My question to this community, to the vendors, the companies that were originally thinking about getting the R&D done to provide a true end user tuning solution is this:

What happened?

I look back at 2010-2012 when I had my 1st Gen 2.0T R-Spec and there was so much promise about an end user tuning solution. Yeah, we had the dynojet CMD piggy back unit, PA was ru(i)ning the flash scene, but there was talk of how easy the stock ECU was to crack and manipulate, this would be a "real tuner's platform"... Sometime around 2011, we saw the rise and fall of the "Crack the Stock ECU" project that went through a few hands and names (anyone remember NitroGen?).

Later on Haltech entered the scene, we had the pro plugin series for the gen 1 for those with lots of $$ and flash canned tunes for those with 500 bucks.

Flash forward a few years, it's almost 2016 and we're in the same boat. Haltech for Gen 1s, canned flash tunes for everyone else on a largely untapped tuning platform.

I'm just trying to figure out what happened during these 5+ years where once there was so much hope for tuning solutions to unlock the actual potential of these engines, to now where most of us are screwed if we want something we have the ability to adjust or go to a local tune shop and have altered with the addition of mods.

Are the canned tunes just making too much $ for companies to bother switching over? Are there not enough people who are wanting a sub $1500 end user tuning solution?

Those of you who have stuck around the scene (looking at you too, vendors)... What's going on? What happened? Where's it going?

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post #2 of 21 Old 12-01-2015
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I think most of it has to do with the demand and the manufacturer.
1. Manufacturer: In today' automotive market manufacturers are most concerned with proprietary programming and technology. They don't want you going anywhere else but a dealership for anything electronic and are designing increasingly complex ecu software to make sure you spend your money with them. Now I know most American manufactured vehicles have a larger support base but that is down to the history of our automotive society for the last 50 years. Plus you have to consider aftermarket manufactures, it still has to make business sense for a product to be designed and produced. The time and money it takes to design an new software product that interfaces seamlessly with our vehicles is not a viable money making option for companies like SCT or Diablosport.
2. Demand: Honestly the size of the genesis coupe community is not that large and has not had nearly the length of time to develop a substantial following due to the relatively short production run in comparison to other makes. I know it sucks to hear and think about but I don't see one ever being released. With Hyundai changing it's marketing target and basically dropping the genesis coupe we will just have to cope with re-flashes and custom tunes.

I am a firm believer that each and everyone of us treats our vehicles as a labor of love and sometimes agonize over the decision on which part to buy or not to buy and how it may affect your vehicle. My goal is to give people some piece of mind in their decision because we all work hard for the money to put into our vehicles and it SUCKS to waste it or not be fully satisfied.
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-01-2015
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The BRZ/FRS/GT86 came out right before things could get going. In the shorter time they've been out, aftermarket options flooded the market. The JDM scene is huge (especially where I live), so there are a ton more vendors that cater to them. Even car shows have multiple categories for them, but KDM doesn't get much love. The only categories at my last event which a Hyundai driver could win weren't very many; JDM and BRZ/FRS are both their own categories along with separate car brand categories.

I'm getting off-track, but I'm pretty upset with this. There is no reason why F/L models don't have their own solution for tuning. Even a canned tune for the lucky few 3.8T leave these guys wanting something more in case they want to tweak it in the future.

GrimmSpeed was probably one of the major vendors that offered a nice performance service. I waited one month too many and their intake manifold PnP option was gone. I'm glad that there is still some support for us, but it is still very limited to what was available from before. As Chrish said, Hyundai is changing their focus and we may be placed on the back burner as the Genesis brand debuts.

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Everyone screams for a solution but nobody buys it when they find out how much it costs. Genesis owners are cheap, it's plain and simple, cut and dry. A no brainer. In addition, most are quite clueless as to how an ECU works. Now combine the fact that companies like BTR flood the scene with their garbage and manage to gain a cult following, and you're left with what we have now. People need to understand that $1500USD for a standalone solution from a company like Haltech is CHEAP.

Why haven't Haltech written the CAN address into their PnP so that 2013+ owners can use it right out of the box? It's not that hard considering there's already a PnP for the 2010-12 Genesis 2.0T, and I made it work perfectly on my 2013. Haltech hardly got any sales from the Gen crowd over the years, I've asked around in the right places, and unless I'm totally off, they've sold around 20-30 units in North America since launch. That's a joke, and a financial mistake for any company.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidz88 View Post
they've sold around 20-30 units in North America since launch.
Wow, seriously? no wonder. That wouldn't even cover R&D costs. I'm surprised there's nothing for the 3.8's since they are out there (The Gencoupe and the Genesis sedan too right?) But I'm not surprised there's nothing for the 2.0 because it's not in production anymore. The numbers of coupes on the road is dwindling as is the aftermarket for them.
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Lap3 is a vendor on here now and they just tuned the new sema supercharged 3.8
they make handheld tuners and they posted on our site a few month's ago that they have tuners available
all their tuning was done in korea,so i'm sure it won't be too long ig people show them the money and good things should be here.
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Its simple, Hyundai didnt produce enough of these cars cheaply enough to build demand for products, and they never marketed it well enough to build the demand. Not to mention half the cars out there that are modded are stanced/show; not performance/go. Plus at the price point the faster version of this car is at (3.8 at $30k+) there are better alternatives out there with an already over-abundant aftermarket.

Its funny how hyped up people are for the next gen 3.3 TT powerplant because of how "easy to make power it will be" yet 5 years after this platforms debut people still arent making easy power and we still have no good end-user tuning support. Even the ECMtuning guys who are used to low demand but high priced product that could use a new platform went "LOL, nope". Diablow has all but given up, they have spent what, 2 years trying to get something going and by this point they will never make their R&D costs back; nobody in their right mind would spend $800 on a ****ing handheld that lets you only adjust pre-set parameters.

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Yes, very disappointing. $1000-$1500 for a standalone is the price point I would consider. Just waiting for Haltech to program for the A/C.....

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post #9 of 21 Old 12-06-2015 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidz88 View Post
Everyone screams for a solution but nobody buys it when they find out how much it costs. Genesis owners are cheap, it's plain and simple, cut and dry. A no brainer. In addition, most are quite clueless as to how an ECU works. Now combine the fact that companies like BTR flood the scene with their garbage and manage to gain a cult following, and you're left with what we have now. People need to understand that $1500USD for a standalone solution from a company like Haltech is CHEAP.

Why haven't Haltech written the CAN address into their PnP so that 2013+ owners can use it right out of the box? It's not that hard considering there's already a PnP for the 2010-12 Genesis 2.0T, and I made it work perfectly on my 2013. Haltech hardly got any sales from the Gen crowd over the years, I've asked around in the right places, and unless I'm totally off, they've sold around 20-30 units in North America since launch. That's a joke, and a financial mistake for any company.
I agree with everything you said. My main concern is what happened to things like we had back in the DSM days (Eclipses/Talons/Lasers...RIP) like DSMLink which was as close to a standalone as you could get while utilizing the stock ECU, but having access to manipulate pretty much any variable the ECU could, all for under 1200 bucks.

I think the posts above have hit the nail on the head, not enough support, not a large enough community.

Honestly, if I'm shelling over 1500 for an EMS, I may as well shell out the extra 500 and go AEM and have a customer harness done so I can save my A/C and have more variables to tune, like load based tuning.

I just wish that there was a simple, professional/clean way of getting A/C to be compliant with the 1st Gen Haltechs without having to have some crazy spaghetti monster looking box solution. To hell with the stock wastegate control, I'll swap a new turbo in if I have a true tuning solution...but to rely solely on canned flash tunes with the amount of variance between cars, builds, and environments? That's a joke.


Aside from my rant, are we concluding that we're now going to be ushered into the dark corners of tuner history due to lack of aftermarket "go" support, even though we had a great platform to work with?
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I think Hyundai is cutting their losses by trying to rebrand the genesis coupe to keep pace with the other high end brands IE: Audi,BMW,Lexus and a few more.
Kia will still have the 2.0T
And Hyundai sonata also has a few sport models with 2.0T GDI motors listing 245 HP.
These are on the dealers lots right now all 2016 models.
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-06-2015
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Originally Posted by cookiemonster View Post
I agree with everything you said. My main concern is what happened to things like we had back in the DSM days (Eclipses/Talons/Lasers...RIP) like DSMLink which was as close to a standalone as you could get while utilizing the stock ECU, but having access to manipulate pretty much any variable the ECU could, all for under 1200 bucks.

I think the posts above have hit the nail on the head, not enough support, not a large enough community.

Honestly, if I'm shelling over 1500 for an EMS, I may as well shell out the extra 500 and go AEM and have a customer harness done so I can save my A/C and have more variables to tune, like load based tuning.

I just wish that there was a simple, professional/clean way of getting A/C to be compliant with the 1st Gen Haltechs without having to have some crazy spaghetti monster looking box solution. To hell with the stock wastegate control, I'll swap a new turbo in if I have a true tuning solution...but to rely solely on canned flash tunes with the amount of variance between cars, builds, and environments? That's a joke.


Aside from my rant, are we concluding that we're now going to be ushered into the dark corners of tuner history due to lack of aftermarket "go" support, even though we had a great platform to work with?
What controlling strategy does the DSM ECU run on? It is likely very different to the Genesis, so we can't have it so easy, you're talking about 20 year old technology, these days everything is on CANBUS and also model based...and there are even plans to start coding ECUs in a new way that would be even further complicated.

Also, it isn't that hard to wire a switch to the A/C compressor to make the Haltech work with the 2013+...it certainly isn't a big box of spaghetti as you put it. The pic below is of my switch panel, the far left switch turns on the A/C compressor(although the system is being deleted this winter entirely), the other switches perform other functions like anti-lag and boost trim.



Anyhow, to conclude, yes the Genesis is going to go down as a missed opportunity for the masses in the tuning community, with the main contributing factor to that being the cheapness and unwillingness of the owners to support legitimate companies who were willing to put R&D into this platform. Everyone wants something for nothing. Believe me, in 2010 there were a LOT of well known companies looking at the Genesis and prototyping parts for it, only to find that nobody was willing to pony up any money.
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Maybe it'll change. I'm now starting to see (slightly more) first and current gen Coupes around here. I know last time I went the dealer and talked to one of the salesmen, he said one guy came in and test drove a R-Spec 3.8, and bought another one (can't remember what). If anything, it should be like Diablo Sport and their In-Tune which starts at ~$400. I'd get one in a heartbeat if one ever came out at that price point.

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Diablo sport HSS tried for three years to bring out a handheld tuner, it ain't happening.
Lap3 has hand held tuners and they just tuned a supercharged 3.8 gen coup for this last Sena show.
They are also a vendor on our site
Also check out their website, it had all prices for their tunes.
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Am I understanding that there is an alternative to Haltech? Someone makes a plug-n-play harness for our cars to be used with an AEM universal standalone? It can control all the features of the car (A/C, cruise control, etc)?

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boomslangharness makes a few plugin harness. FIC,AEM,Haltech and motec @darkvader0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidz88 View Post
Anyhow, to conclude, yes the Genesis is going to go down as a missed opportunity for the masses in the tuning community, with the main contributing factor to that being the cheapness and unwillingness of the owners to support legitimate companies who were willing to put R&D into this platform. Everyone wants something for nothing. Believe me, in 2010 there were a LOT of well known companies looking at the Genesis and prototyping parts for it, only to find that nobody was willing to pony up any money.
this x 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

There is a guy on the Evo forums by the name of "Tephra" the guy, to this day is still messing around inside the stock ECU, finding/creating new tables and such that keep the platform evolving, even when the manufacturer has stopped making them lol.

The reason this guy still does what he does is because every once In a while he will come on asking for donations, with evidence of why we are throwing money at him. And we will all chip in.. THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY (Given not everyone). And bam, a few weeks later he releases a ROM with something like, oh I don't know. FLEX FUEL TUNING!!!

Even the Genesis coupe got that before the Evo X due to the Haltech.. But here we go again.. The Haltech cost $1500, I don't have that money, blah, blah, blah.

/rant.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidz88 View Post
What controlling strategy does the DSM ECU run on? It is likely very different to the Genesis, so we can't have it so easy, you're talking about 20 year old technology, these days everything is on CANBUS and also model based...and there are even plans to start coding ECUs in a new way that would be even further complicated.

Also, it isn't that hard to wire a switch to the A/C compressor to make the Haltech work with the 2013+...it certainly isn't a big box of spaghetti as you put it. The pic below is of my switch panel, the far left switch turns on the A/C compressor(although the system is being deleted this winter entirely), the other switches perform other functions like anti-lag and boost trim.



Anyhow, to conclude, yes the Genesis is going to go down as a missed opportunity for the masses in the tuning community, with the main contributing factor to that being the cheapness and unwillingness of the owners to support legitimate companies who were willing to put R&D into this platform. Everyone wants something for nothing. Believe me, in 2010 there were a LOT of well known companies looking at the Genesis and prototyping parts for it, only to find that nobody was willing to pony up any money.
Are you sending full voltage to the AC solenoid

I was just not sure if it was able to handle it...i couldn`t find a real answer on the net

and the car put 10V to the solenoid at idle (didn`t verify while driving)

So i just do the same and put 10V to it with a mosfet transistor
and that bundle of wire lol

was trying to find the compressor connector, would be much easier than building that 40 pin connector
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theres also this... https://www.gencoupe.com/engine/43832...ce-2-0t-3.html

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Originally Posted by genspec13 View Post
Are you sending full voltage to the AC solenoid
Yes, full voltage, worked fine for me.
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Originally Posted by kimnat0r View Post
and it's so dead

EFR7163 2.0T BK1 A/T build - fast spooling 400whp+ 5speed auto <- let's pray it'll last a while -> https://www.gencoupe.com/gencoupe-build-projects/582313-lokiinlove-s-2-0t-t-build-thread.html
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