Tuned 2.0 vs. 3.8 - Page 4 - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #61 of 82 Old 04-11-2016
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Originally Posted by warpspeed View Post
This race would also comes down to how good of a shifter this M/T driver is. people like to forget that a computer can shift smoother and faster than any human could. So with that being said if this other driver is a crapshoot when it comes to shifting then obviously the A/T will win in my opinion. I used to have a 2011 A/T with only an SRI rest was stock (I now own a 2013 A/T with a SRI, IDK I just love paddle shifting haha) and would be able to sneak in a win vs a M/T almost all the time due to the fact that a lot of people who go to the track think they are awesome at shifting when in Reality they are just OK at it. I wouldn't win by much maybe a car length (if that) but a win is a win.
A good point ,smart man .The car is no better than the driver operating it .
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post #62 of 82 Old 04-12-2016
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I raced a custom tuned 2.0 making 318whp with the 8speed auto in my bk1 3.8 sfr 1.5 canned tuned manual. From a 40 roll the 2.0 took me by about half a car length, but from a 60 roll we were basically dead even.


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Originally Posted by warpspeed View Post
This race would also comes down to how good of a shifter this M/T driver is. people like to forget that a computer can shift smoother and faster than any human could.
Not all automatics are equal, and the 8AT in the genesis coupe isnt anything special. Now DCT or other clutched automatics are on another level, but a standard automatic with flappy paddles and "sport mode bruh" isnt outshifting a good MT banging gears, and its also soaking up more power from reaching the wheels in doing so.

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Originally Posted by thomas91169 View Post
Not all automatics are equal, and the 8AT in the genesis coupe isnt anything special. Now DCT or other clutched automatics are on another level, but a standard automatic with flappy paddles and "sport mode bruh" isnt outshifting a good MT banging gears, and its also soaking up more power from reaching the wheels in doing so.
the 8at is a ZF transmission. might want to read up on that.

An DCT are a pain to drive in the city
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post #65 of 82 Old 04-15-2016 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kingwzrdcudder View Post
I raced a custom tuned 2.0 making 318whp with the 8speed auto in my bk1 3.8 sfr 1.5 canned tuned manual. From a 40 roll the 2.0 took me by about half a car length, but from a 60 roll we were basically dead even.


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Are we talking BK1 vs. Bk1 or Bk1 vs. Bk2? I have a BK2....I can find videos all day long on BK1's racing each other....BK2's not so much, which is the reason I started this thread....

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Originally Posted by thomas91169 View Post
Not all automatics are equal, and the 8AT in the genesis coupe isnt anything special. Now DCT or other clutched automatics are on another level, but a standard automatic with flappy paddles and "sport mode bruh" isnt outshifting a good MT banging gears, and its also soaking up more power from reaching the wheels in doing so.
I completely agree with this statement....the 8AT sucks...slow shifting A/T imo...would much rather have a DCT something that shifts quick like the GTR trans. + this guy can drive manual..he's been driving M/T since his first car so i'd say he has 15+ years experience driving a M/T and bangs gears OK.

Here's what I keep noticing in the M/T vs. A/T dyno #'s. Engine for (same) engine the HP is ok it's the TQ #'s where the M/T seems to be a bit more significant than the A/T.

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Originally Posted by AKGC View Post
the 8at is a ZF transmission. might want to read up on that.

An DCT are a pain to drive in the city
I was told by Hyundai the 2013+ 8AT is Hyundai's. now the BK1's were ZF but the BK2s are Hyundai's transmission. Was told by an engineer they got away from ZF due to too many issues. IICRC ...when I asked the tech at the dlr how the tranny's are he said they haven't really had any problems just the previous ZF's in the BK1's. the BK2's so far they're holding up and I think he mentioned something about MOBIS.

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Originally Posted by Gencpe View Post
the fact that since you drive a coupe the dealer assumes you broke it, abused it or modified it and will do everything to get out of covering anything and everything out of warranty.
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Originally Posted by snow-drift View Post
You hit the nail on the head there. I'm tired of under the breath comments of doing donuts or whatever from my service dept.
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post #66 of 82 Old 04-15-2016
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Mobis is the manufacturing company that hyundai and kia uses.

Similar to how nissan and subaru uses fuji heavy industries as theirs

apparently it's a copy of the ZF 8 speed

https://www.gencoupe.com/general-disc...breakdown.html

Only issues I recall with the ZF 6 speed was with the shifting cable.

On a side note. apparently hyundai now has carbon syncros in the 6 speed
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post #67 of 82 Old 04-15-2016 Thread Starter
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Looks like i'm back tracking here since the sub didn't alert me about these new posts....

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Originally Posted by AKGC View Post
Cars in question:

2013 2.0T
Automatic
1.5 tune

2013 3.8
Manual (automatic? Not clear in first post)
tune


With the 2.0 being an automatic, turbo lag wouldn't really be an issue.
^^
This is correct sir. the 3.8 is a 6 speed M/T and just a canned tune not sure if it's stage 1 or 1.5 SFR. He has an injen intake and magnaflow CBE if that matters.

My mods are listed on the first page.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
Just going to throw some input here.

My friend has the same identical R-SPEC model I do in the 2.0. I have the 3.8


From a roll stock, he would beat me. Very even on the low end, but he would pull me on the top.

After I began modding my car, most of the races were nearly dead even. I did some more modding, so has he.

He decided to go 6266 turbo and from a 20, and a 40 I would pull him about 1-2 cars in the beginning and he would eventually catch up and make it even towards the end.

Before he went big turbo he had the stock turbo and I had all my mods done. Tune, full exhaust (header, mp, cbe) Races were nearly the same, maybe me winning by a fender or half a car.

Both cars are 2015's In Ibiza Blue Track Models. 6MT.

tl:dr - The 3.8 has instant torque so it will jump on the 2.0 from the beginning. If you brake boost the 2.0 from a roll they're dead even cars. In your case, the A/T car might fall behind due to the fact of the gearing, etc.

I'm basing all this evidence above from **** that has happened with me.
Thanks for your real world input. this is what i'm looking for is either dyno #'s vs. Dyno #'s but preferably 1/4 mile times.

Interesting....the only thing is that I have an A/T...I know from a dig the 3.8 has more torque most likely.....but from a roll.....all the way up to 130+ who knows right?

this scenario is a bit unusual since we're talking both BK2 in 2.0T 8-speed A/T vs. 3.8 M/T 6-speed. both with a tune.

I was told the opposite due to the 8 speed vs. 6 speed gearing once you hit high triple digit speeds the 8 speed walks the 6 speed....and the guy's testimonial who claimed this apparently has seen this IRL. but the only issue was the 2.0T was tuned and the 3.8 was stock so not much of an apples to apples race there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gencpe View Post
the fact that since you drive a coupe the dealer assumes you broke it, abused it or modified it and will do everything to get out of covering anything and everything out of warranty.
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Originally Posted by snow-drift View Post
You hit the nail on the head there. I'm tired of under the breath comments of doing donuts or whatever from my service dept.
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Originally Posted by AKGC View Post
Mobis is the manufacturing company that hyundai and kia uses.

Similar to how nissan and subaru uses fuji heavy industries as theirs

apparently it's a copy of the ZF 8 speed

https://www.gencoupe.com/general-disc...breakdown.html

Only issues I recall with the ZF 6 speed was with the shifting cable.

On a side note. apparently hyundai now has carbon syncros in the 6 speed
Yes, that's what the engineer told me IICRC the latest trans. are ZF copies made by Hyundai and branded as such instead of using a straight German made ZF.

The thing is even the 2013 Manual's seem to be having some problems when put in gear...something about grinding not sure but I already know two people who have complained about it and one that has replaced their transmission twice now. but then again idk too much about the M/T's in the gen coupe as I have the A/T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gencpe View Post
the fact that since you drive a coupe the dealer assumes you broke it, abused it or modified it and will do everything to get out of covering anything and everything out of warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snow-drift View Post
You hit the nail on the head there. I'm tired of under the breath comments of doing donuts or whatever from my service dept.
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Thanks for everyone's input....i'm sure we'll be racing soon....but when we do it'll probably be on film so i'll post up if that happens. If anyone else has anything to chime in about pertaining to the OP please post
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Originally Posted by AKGC View Post
the 8at is a ZF transmission. might want to read up on that.

An DCT are a pain to drive in the city
The 8AT that Hyundai uses is not a ZF. Its Hyundais "value engineered" copy.

Might want to read up on that.

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The 8AT that Hyundai uses is not a ZF. Its Hyundais "value engineered" copy.

Might want to read up on that.
look at my last post
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post #72 of 82 Old 04-15-2016
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look at my last post
Sweet you searched the internets before I could reply. I had the reply open but got sidetracked lol.

Hyundais 8AT isnt anywhere close to a true ZF and like I said, is in all likelyhood a very cheaply made version.

If it was a true ZF thats used in the likes of Hellcats, I wouldnt have argued with you.

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post #73 of 82 Old 04-15-2016
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[QUOTE=Gencpe;4159497]Are we talking BK1 vs. Bk1 or Bk1 vs. Bk2? I have a BK2....I can find videos all day long on BK1's racing each other....BK2's not so much, which is the reason I started this thread....




This was my 3.8 bk1 vs a 2.0 bk2
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Originally Posted by Gencpe View Post
Are we talking BK1 vs. Bk1 or Bk1 vs. Bk2? I have a BK2....I can find videos all day long on BK1's racing each other....BK2's not so much, which is the reason I started this thread....







I completely agree with this statement....the 8AT sucks...slow shifting A/T imo...would much rather have a DCT something that shifts quick like the GTR trans. + this guy can drive manual..he's been driving M/T since his first car so i'd say he has 15+ years experience driving a M/T and bangs gears OK.



Here's what I keep noticing in the M/T vs. A/T dyno #'s. Engine for (same) engine the HP is ok it's the TQ #'s where the M/T seems to be a bit more significant than the A/T.







I was told by Hyundai the 2013+ 8AT is Hyundai's. now the BK1's were ZF but the BK2s are Hyundai's transmission. Was told by an engineer they got away from ZF due to too many issues. IICRC ...when I asked the tech at the dlr how the tranny's are he said they haven't really had any problems just the previous ZF's in the BK1's. the BK2's so far they're holding up and I think he mentioned something about MOBIS.


3.8 bk1 vs 2.0 bk2
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I've had many runs w 3.8's when I was in Mexico of coarse. I'm bk2 2.0 manual, bolted & tuned, the bk1 3.8 was an auto, I could beat every time we went no problem. Bk2 3.8 fully bolted manual w no tune was even, sometimes id win, sometimes not but it was very close every time. Now I have meth and I think I'd take a bk2 3.8 but that hasn't happened yet.
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Gencpe, comparing dyno #'s wont help since every dyno is different. For what its worth, I have very similar mods to you... 2013 2.0t 8AT with R2C intake, TurboXS racepipe with 2nd cat delete, TurboXS catback, TurboXS RFL bov, and SFR 1.5 canned tune. I still have my factory O2 so I'm not sure if your definition of downpipe includes primary cat delete or not but other than that our mods are comparable. With that said since you asked for 1/4 times I went couple months ago with those mods, factory 19" wheels on Hankook V12's still at 35+ psi:

60' : 2.152
1/4 mile: 13.687
trap MPH: 101.69

Could have cut a better 60' time letting air out of the tires and brake boosting higher which would have drop the 1/4 time a couple tenths I'm guessing. I honestly think you have a better shot from a dig than a roll.
SFR 1.5 lets you brake boost from dig and roll. Brake boost + 8AT allows you to run 4.9-5.1s 0-60mph all night long consistently and faster than any mildly modded BK2 3.8 6MT can (lets be honest, how much *extra* hp does a tune really give a 3.8 to really affect times anyway). Anyone with a tuned BK2 2.0 8AT can chime in and confirm this thing launches decent for an overweight rwd coupe with a 'Hyundai-made' 8AT if brake boosted from a dig. From a roll, like some have said, the aggressive gearing from the 8AT loses the advantage and you get a lot of power sapped through the transmission.

So IMHO, if you want a guaranteed win, run him from a dig. Your 8AT will consistently out-accelerate him. If you run him from a roll, I say with my butt dyno it will be close but you should be able to take him. If you want an advantage from a roll, I suggest you brake boost. Let us know how it turns out!
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post #77 of 82 Old 04-16-2016
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Originally Posted by wubizzle View Post
Gencpe, comparing dyno #'s wont help since every dyno is different. For what its worth, I have very similar mods to you... 2013 2.0t 8AT with R2C intake, TurboXS racepipe with 2nd cat delete, TurboXS catback, TurboXS RFL bov, and SFR 1.5 canned tune. I still have my factory O2 so I'm not sure if your definition of downpipe includes primary cat delete or not but other than that our mods are comparable. With that said since you asked for 1/4 times I went couple months ago with those mods, factory 19" wheels on Hankook V12's still at 35+ psi:

60' : 2.152
1/4 mile: 13.687
trap MPH: 101.69

Could have cut a better 60' time letting air out of the tires and brake boosting higher which would have drop the 1/4 time a couple tenths I'm guessing. I honestly think you have a better shot from a dig than a roll.
SFR 1.5 lets you brake boost from dig and roll. Brake boost + 8AT allows you to run 4.9-5.1s 0-60mph all night long consistently and faster than any mildly modded BK2 3.8 6MT can (lets be honest, how much *extra* hp does a tune really give a 3.8 to really affect times anyway). Anyone with a tuned BK2 2.0 8AT can chime in and confirm this thing launches decent for an overweight rwd coupe with a 'Hyundai-made' 8AT if brake boosted from a dig. From a roll, like some have said, the aggressive gearing from the 8AT loses the advantage and you get a lot of power sapped through the transmission.

So IMHO, if you want a guaranteed win, run him from a dig. Your 8AT will consistently out-accelerate him. If you run him from a roll, I say with my butt dyno it will be close but you should be able to take him. If you want an advantage from a roll, I suggest you brake boost. Let us know how it turns out!


I'm 3.8 6spd Straightpiped w tune on pump 93

I dont have the slip with me at the moment but I ran...

60' - 2.00
1/4 - 13.2
trap speed - 105mph

This was the best launch I had that night and I dropped rear tire pressure to 25 pounds. 275 tire

Also let me note that I was BANGING gears as fast as I could. I'm planning to pull the backseat out and the trunk to lose some extra weight and run a 50 shot to see if I can break into the 12's.

Last edited by Mac; 04-16-2016 at 05:59 AM.
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post #78 of 82 Old 04-16-2016
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Gentlemen with BK2 3.8 (torsion rear diff ) install a 75 shot Nitrous system (under $400.00) a 2 dial controller ($250.00) Purge kit ($120.00) MSD shift light with MSD GMR pick up ($150.00 ),under $1,000.00 and be in the 12's with a few more supporting mods .I run 12.07 ET @ 117.7 mph in the 1/4 .(NITTO NT05's are keeping out of 11's .Once my Nitto's wear out ,Drag radials will be my ticket for 11's .Check my post's on GDI nitrous ,If you want to run FAST without going broke and breaking down then Nitrous is the key .
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post #79 of 82 Old 04-20-2016
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Ran 11.87 with drag radials finally in the 1/4 at the same mph (117.9).I'm done boys ,time for me to do something else .It has been a lot of gained info on this forum ,if you guys want to go fast against anyone ,NOS is the ticket .Stay in the 75 hp jetting range and work on the suspension .Low 12's and high 11's are doable .Shorttrack.............signing off .
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post #80 of 82 Old 04-21-2016
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