Direct Injection...Carbon Buildup - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 06-19-2014 Thread Starter
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Direct Injection...Carbon Buildup

Forgive me if this subject has already been covered. I did a search and didn't find anything about it.

I am quite familiar with the 2.0 Turbo engines from VW that have a serious problem with exhaust valve carbon problems with direct injection engines. This usually occurs after about 40,000 miles and requires an expensive cleaning.

Does anyone know if Hyundai has addressed this problem regarding their new engines and in particular, the 3.8?

Unfortunately, no amount of high speed driving can blow out the carbon with a Direct Injection engine.

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post #2 of 46 Old 06-20-2014
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No, it's probably better than some earlier GDI motors and definitely better than a turbo GDI but the issue is still there. Best bet is to get a catch can installed to catch as much of the junk that would get baked to the valves as possible.

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post #3 of 46 Old 06-20-2014
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man when i put in my intake manifold spacer. it was horrible. and i only had the car for 8k miles at that point.

But yeah Catch cans will help.

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I'm not familiar with catch cans. Can you help a newbie get educated?
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Here you go, this is more specific to the 2.0T, but it explains the concept: https://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t-discuss...catch-can.html

There are other threads too that are specific to the 3.8, both the GDI and non-GDI motors, like this one that's a general discussion for the 2013+ V6: https://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6-discu...catch-can.html

And here's my DIY install thread for the 3.8: https://www.gencoupe.com/diy-do-yours...n-install.html

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingo View Post
man when i put in my intake manifold spacer. it was horrible. and i only had the car for 8k miles at that point.

But yeah Catch cans will help.


I had almost the exact same experience, with 9K miles the buildup was pretty bad.

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There has been some research suggesting that a water injection system can help alleviate the carbon build up problem but others say that there is a possibility of some rust building on internal parts.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGowen View Post


I had almost the exact same experience, with 9K miles the buildup was pretty bad.
did you try seafoam or anything of the kind before?

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No! I did a manual valve cleaning when I took off my intake to send to GrimmSpeed. I've heard good things about Seafoam, though.

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My plan is to Seafoam every 10,000 miles, I change my oil every 5,000 miles so every other oil change, I've done it once so far, due for another this summer.

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^that's a solid plan. Smell your oil though around 3000 I think the fuel smell will make you want to change that oil sooner.. GDI oil is simply nasty when it gets miles on it.

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I'm using Euro spec full synthetic which is ideal for GDI motors, I feel like I'm already being overly cautious at 5,000 considering it meets BMW, Audi, etc standards for extended life.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by inertiamonster View Post
I'm using Euro spec full synthetic which is ideal for GDI motors, I feel like I'm already being overly cautious at 5,000 considering it meets BMW, Audi, etc standards for extended life.
That's the same oil spec'd for the VWs as well (VAG) Volkswagen, Audi Group.

My current 2013 VW, CC, 2.0T gets that oil from the dealership during its freebie oil changes and my 09 Eos 2.0T that I traded for my Coupe also got the same oil.

The bottom line is that it does not seem to help the VAG guys as far as carbon on the valves.

I have been driving DI engines since 09 when I got my first CC and my Eos which were both 09s. The first CC was a V6.

No matter what the VAG people did, nothing really kept them from having to do the nasty and expensive valve cleaning routine, at least by 40,000 miles. Some, even sooner. Many used Seafoam regularly without success.

Hopefully it will work on the Hyundai engines.

My Eos only had 17,000 miles on it and my first CC, V6 only had 35,000 miles on it. So, I have no experience with carbon problems.

My current 2013 CC only has 20,000 miles on it and hopefully, I will get rid of it before any carbon problems arise.

Until the government got involved in what the automakers could do and could not do with their engines, everything was going quite well.

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To be clear I'm not saying the oil will help with carbon build up, just that it can safely go longer between changes.

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The only thing that will help prevent carbon buildup is an oil catch can on the PCV side. The reasons and remedies are outlined in the threads inertia linked to above. They are a great read, as soon as possible after purchasing your DI car.

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Why does carbon buildup? Complete combustion that is only possible with direct injection engines. This is why no bolt on parts fixes it. That's just the way they are. Now Porsche is about the only line of DI engines that don't suffer this issue.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by inertiamonster View Post
To be clear I'm not saying the oil will help with carbon build up, just that it can safely go longer between changes.
Okay, got it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumb5 View Post
Why does carbon buildup? Complete combustion that is only possible with direct injection engines. This is why no bolt on parts fixes it. That's just the way they are. Now Porsche is about the only line of DI engines that don't suffer this issue.

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Assuming that is true, I wonder what is different about Porsche's DI?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumb5 View Post
Why does carbon buildup? Complete combustion that is only possible with direct injection engines. This is why no bolt on parts fixes it. That's just the way they are. Now Porsche is about the only line of DI engines that don't suffer this issue.
The biggest reason is fuel is not being sprayed on the valves with DI. I don't think any of us are saying there's a 100% fix for the issue, just that there's ways to greatly reduce the effect. What is Porsche doing differently? Link?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumb5 View Post
Why does carbon buildup? Complete combustion that is only possible with direct injection engines. This is why no bolt on parts fixes it. That's just the way they are. Now Porsche is about the only line of DI engines that don't suffer this issue.

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Actually, it is only indirectly related to the combustion, it has to do with how the fuel is delivered to the cylinder (which is also what affects the burn efficiency, hence the indirect relationship). The reason we get such horrible carbon buildup is because the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, rather than injected in the intake manifold directed at the back of the valve stem, hence the term "direct injection". In non-DI vehicles, the fuel being sprayed on the valve stems washes the buildup off the stems and valves into the cylinder, and it is processed out as the engine runs. In our cars, there is no washing effect as the fuel is sprayed directly into the cylinder and never touches the intake valves, so the exhaust gas and oil from the PCV system sticks to and builds up in the intake system. The reason a few manufacturers that have been working with DI engines for a while have less problem with this is because they re-engineered their PCV system to solve this or have included oil catch cans from the factory between the PCV valve and the intake port. Which is what we do in our cars aftermarket to solve the issue.

And again, all of this information can be found in the threads inertia linked to.

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InstalledTurbonetics 6766 3.8T kit! Built engine, fuel return, flex fuel sensor, Haltech ECU, running E85, BTR custom tuned, currently working with Alphaspeed tuning, CNT exhaust, Vertini Racing wheels, Megan mounts, dual CCs, 1400cc injectors. Last dyno tune: 608whp/602wtq
ReceivedGarageline driveshaft couplers, solid diff bushings, PSM Pro coils, JRC rear diff cover, Sedan rear subframe, complete PSM suspension arms and super angle kit, Snow Perf. W/M kit

Last edited by JGowen; 06-22-2014 at 01:03 PM.
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