Intake manifolds understood - Page 2 - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #21 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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If little to no surge tanks on TE are best then why does almost all turbo cars have bigger surge tanks then their naturally aspirated counterparts?
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post #22 of 134 Old 04-09-2013 Thread Starter
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Can you give me a specific example of a stock turbo charged intake manifold that does that?

Here's a picture of the 2.0 Theta NA on a Kia Forte, same basic engine as the GC and I would be very hesitant to say that its intake manifold is smaller than the one on the 2.0T


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post #23 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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Actually I'm thinking in terms of aftermarket since factory designs have other things in consideration other then making power. That NA intake manifold just has longer runners to promote low end torque since they don't have tiny turbos to help them out. I'm not a expert at intake manifolds but that statement of having little to no surge tank for TE just isn't right.
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post #24 of 134 Old 04-09-2013 Thread Starter
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To be fair, I already covered what you're asking.

Quote:
For optimal performance a TE would have the shortest runners possible with little to no surge tank for maximum performance under load, however when driving outside of load such as cruising, it can cause some decline in performance and responsiveness.
Quote:
Runner length can only be changed with an aftermarket intake manifolds, gains for specifically modifying this length can be troublesome as it usually just moves the power band rather than increasing it. Often aftermarket companies shorten the runners and increase the surge tank volume to compensate for closed throttle conditions, thus costing low end torque or relying in fast turbo spool to compensate and increasing high RPM power.
So what looks like a large surge tank, is often connected to the shortest runners possible and they use the surge tank to compensate for the required volume, exactly what I already said. If you look at the majority of the GC's aftermarket options they don't have very long runners and are equal length and straight out from the cylinder head. With the stock manifold the runners connect to a small surge tank but are long (nearly 10 inches), the middle two runners actually wrap down and come back up to make the required distance where the out board runners arc out from the centre surge tank.

You'll see here in this custom fabricated after market intake manifold the runner length is far from 10 inches and has quite a large surge tank to compensate.



You'll see here with the vacuum tank removed, there is no tom foolery on the fourth runner, it's identical in angle and size to the first runner.

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post #25 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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Well now that is neat, never seen that pic before.

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post #27 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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What's the benefit of removing the vacuum tank? Kinda curious since my new mani won't have one either. Any disadvantages?

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post #28 of 134 Old 04-09-2013 Thread Starter
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I'm actually not removing the vacuum tank, just going aftermarket with it. If you plan on using the stock solenoid to control your BOV, you'll need some kind of reservoir for vacuum. The OE vacuum tank is ~350mL of displacement, roughly the same size as a soda can. I measured that before I removed the old one. I'll be covering all this in the Project Woodstock thread when the new tank arrives.
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post #29 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy0812 View Post
I'm actually not removing the vacuum tank, just going aftermarket with it. If you plan on using the stock solenoid to control your BOV, you'll need some kind of reservoir for vacuum. The OE vacuum tank is ~350mL of displacement, roughly the same size as a soda can. I measured that before I removed the old one. I'll be covering all this in the Project Woodstock thread when the new tank arrives.
Very interesting. I'll keep an eye on this.


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post #30 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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Good Info

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post #31 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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Right on. I've been running my BoV off the big IM line anyway. Looking forward to more Woodstock progress.

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post #32 of 134 Old 04-09-2013
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post #33 of 134 Old 04-10-2013
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To add Fiat has a system that has 2 runners going to each cylinder and a butterfly valve of sorts that regulates flow between them.
One runner is long for torque, and the other is short for upper end power.
They call it a multi air system IIRC.

I don't like the stock design.
The plenum is far too small. and the runners are about 2 inches (overall length) too long and have odd bends in them when they don't need to be.

I'm basing my opinions on how the sr20det manifold is designed.
same displacement, about the same power. The theta has a higher compression, so it should be making more torque, and CVVT to make it more efficient.
Which doesn't really show in comparison.
And I don't recall any manufacturer designing their manifolds like this, pretty sure with good reason.

Last edited by AKGC; 04-10-2013 at 04:39 AM.
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post #34 of 134 Old 04-10-2013
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Yamaha patented the dual runner system in the 80s. They made the '89-'95 Taurus SHO 3L and it had two torque peaks. Using a set of secondary butterflies to control the air flow.

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post #35 of 134 Old 04-10-2013
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Ford used them a lot back then. Even had one in the SVT Focus.

One standardized US gallon of displacement compressed using 6 pistons housed in a 60 degree all aluminum V shaped block to 10.4 atmospheres injected and ejected via 24 valves and 4 camshafts. Mix part 100% organically produced air w/ part refined 91 octane liquid hydrocarbons. Expose to electricity and pressure within the energy extrapolater to produce forward thrust via a fully synchronized helical gear set coupled to a minimal slippage differentiator and rubberized traction disks.
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post #36 of 134 Old 04-10-2013 Thread Starter
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Actually MultiAir is a cam system that replaces cams and throttle plates with hydraulically actuated individual valves.
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post #37 of 134 Old 04-10-2013
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Could you elaborate more on the 2 pieces of the intake manifold for the 3.8? I understand the function of the upper piece but what exactly does the lower piece do? Or more to the point, is there anything you can or should do to upgrade it for flow?
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post #38 of 134 Old 04-10-2013 Thread Starter
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upper piece is the surge tank, lower piece is the runners with the injector bosses on it. If you have a 2013, same lower piece just without injector bosses.

I covered how it can be upgraded in the 3rd post.
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post #39 of 134 Old 04-10-2013
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post #40 of 134 Old 04-10-2013
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Good info snoopy.

Hondas have the variable runners too, so does the 2010 Tucson. It's pretty common since the late 90's.




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