How much would it cost to get the 2.0t up to par with the 3.8? - Page 8 - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #141 of 196 Old 09-21-2009
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Blow right by?

A V6 all-motor setup will be around 330whp with all the advantages of N/A *cough* instant throttle response *cough* whereas you'll still be wondering when your boost kicks in.

Don't kid yourself, you WILL need to change the internals, unless you're happy blowing your motor every 10 000 miles? A 2.0T on max. settings will blow up, you will have successfully limited the engine's longevity, it's a matter of how soon, not "if".

These shop cars don't give a ****, they can rebuild their cars and pass it on their expenses. They're testing the limits. You're not, this is your daily driver, unless I missed that it was your track car.
I will agree there will be no blowing by, but with a properly sized turbo it will hit full boost at 3000-3500 rpms so turbo lag will not be an issue.

This is an unfounded statement and you are just assuming that you will need internals. Until there are multiple failures at the levels discussed you just making unjustified unfounded statements.




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I've said it before and here it is again... Jake doesn't raise the bar, he is the bar!
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I personally don't want to mess with turbo's any more after all the trouble my car went through and is now being bought back by GM. No replacement for displacement.
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Originally Posted by TexasGenesis View Post
I will agree there will be no blowing by, but with a properly sized turbo it will hit full boost at 3000-3500 rpms so turbo lag will not be an issue.

This is an unfounded statement and you are just assuming that you will need internals. Until there are multiple failures at the levels discussed you just making unjustified unfounded statements.
BeyondRedline themselves basically said the 2.0T Theta wasn't half of what it made out to be: a cheap version of the EvoX's engine. It's no where close.

https://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/15615-b...ext-level.html

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So what did we learn from all this???
The stock engine is limited to 350-400 WHP, as we originally guesstimated. The stock rods are the weak point but only slightly more weak than the stock pistons. Also, remember the problem Luke had with turning the car off? Hyundai added a neat little gem to their car. The computer won't let the engine be turned off until the vehicle speed sensor reads zero. Yes, that's right, if your throttle by wire goes haywire, you can't turn the car off until you stop it via bridge embankment or building, and if you blow your car up you get to make a cool line of oil fire until you stop.
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The rod did not break on the dyno however. It broke on the street. I realize that if I were to just let off the throttle, that may add to the stress on the rod, but 6800 rpm and 280 wtq shouldn't be that big of deal. I figured these rods would hold to about 400 hp, but as of right now I wouldn't recommend anyone going over 300hp and expect any sort of long term durability.

New motor should be done today, hopefully we will have results soon.
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sorry to hear your story..

our friends in korea (Fixon) had a similar problem in the beginning.. they managed to pull 373 with GT30R 1.6bar and twisted the connecting rod. Now they use beefier rods and make 423hp 49kg. it seems like the rods are the weakest link.
I understand that this may or may not have been your case (and we hope it's not) but only more R&D from vendors would tell.

we'll be posting our studies as well~
You know it just as well any anybody else out there, I've seen your posts and it sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself the purchase of the 2.0T.

Korean tuners have dropped the 2.0T, most of the big HP turbo setups are all 3.8 Lambda engines.
 
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I personally don't want to mess with turbo's any more after all the trouble my car went through and is now being bought back by GM. No replacement for displacement.
What car? Turbo Cobalt? Turbo Saab?

For Sale: Brand New Injen Cold Air Intake for 3.8 V6, never opened, $280picked up, pm me.

"...this isnt a tib. the 3.8 will always be a better engine in stock form, and with boltons, and with a turbo/bigger turbo..." 4TGEN
"My [blah blah blah] was a beast, but I don't live in the past..." Hank
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post #145 of 196 Old 09-21-2009
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
You know it just as well any anybody else out there, I've seen your posts and it sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself the purchase of the 2.0T.

Korean tuners have dropped the 2.0T, most of the big HP turbo setups are all 3.8 Lambda engines.
I'm not justifying anything as I've also openly said 250whp is enough for me. Sure I could have gotten the V6 and called it a day, but whats the fun in that? The only reason I post in here is because I'm sick of people saying the V6 can "easily hit 300+" and the 2.0T is a waste, when all the v6dyno's i've seen on here haven't even broken 290 yet, let alone 330 N/A.

Show me a V6 on this board over 300 and you'll have some credibility, until that time there are more 300+ whp STOCK INTERNAL 2.0t's than V6's on this board, period, end of story.

https://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/20975...tempt-2-a.html

Perfect example, a stock V6 barely making 250 whp. Show me an N/A that's not stroked or cam'd and I'll start believing what you say, somewhat. By your logic I/H/E is going to give 80 whp? I want some of what you're smoking. Until that time all you're doing is the same thing my turbo does at high rpm BLOWING HOT AIR.




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We're all blowing hot air until we ourselves have gone through and done it first hand.

For Sale: Brand New Injen Cold Air Intake for 3.8 V6, never opened, $280picked up, pm me.

"...this isnt a tib. the 3.8 will always be a better engine in stock form, and with boltons, and with a turbo/bigger turbo..." 4TGEN
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What car? Turbo Cobalt? Turbo Saab?
Solstice GXP, same Engine / Turbo as the Cobalt but its RWD. I had issues with misfiring, random limp mode codes, and in the end I lost compression in cylinder #1 which ended up bending some valves and the car spent 60days in the shop. Thing is though my friend has the same car and now he is going through with detonation, misfiring, oil leak from the turbo that the tech's can't fix. And my car only had 9k miles lol. And my car was stock with only GM Performance upgrades (Tune and CAI). Also people are now reporting that they see a crack in the turbo but GM has said that it is normal wear and tear. The car uses a K04 turbo and the engine has great internals unless your going 600whp+.
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I'm not justifying anything as I've also openly said 250whp is enough for me. Sure I could have gotten the V6 and called it a day, but whats the fun in that? The only reason I post in here is because I'm sick of people saying the V6 can "easily hit 300+" and the 2.0T is a waste, when all the v6dyno's i've seen on here haven't even broken 290 yet, let alone 330 N/A.

Show me a V6 on this board over 300 and you'll have some credibility, until that time there are more 300+ whp STOCK INTERNAL 2.0t's than V6's on this board, period, end of story.

https://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/20975...tempt-2-a.html

Perfect example, a stock V6 barely making 250 whp. Show me an N/A that's not stroked or cam'd and I'll start believing what you say, somewhat. By your logic I/H/E is going to give 80 whp? I want some of what you're smoking. Until that time all you're doing is the same thing my turbo does at high rpm BLOWING HOT AIR.
So you're pulling a 3.8 AUTO Dyno? That's strictly a baseline, he didn't have any mods whatsoever.

To reach 330whp, you'll need the following:
Complete exhaust system including headers
Tune
Cams
Air intake

Korean tuners have been reaching 300whp with dual cat back exhaust (w/ sec. cat delete) and a tune.

These tunes have not reached the US yet, obviously we won't have dynos in the US, but there are plenty in Korea which have been posted by SFR and other companies.

Dual cat-back w/ tune +30 whp:



So we need another 35 whp to reach 330whp.
We still have headers, cams and intake to go.
You think it CAN'T be done?
post #149 of 196 Old 09-21-2009
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that dyno and all korean dynos are done in PS and thats lower than HP

2010 Nord Grey 2.0T track 234whp 260lbs
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1 pferdestarke = 0.9863201 horsepower [international]

1.4% discrepency....we'll argue over 3whp?
post #151 of 196 Old 09-21-2009
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How about these then? You're cherry picking the best you can find, I'm using what people on HERE have actually achieved.

https://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/21017...al-result.html
https://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6/20097...car-today.html

Again, show me this fabled 330 whp V6 N/A that DOESNT have internals replaced and you'll have some belief from me, but until that time....




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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
BeyondRedline themselves basically said the 2.0T Theta wasn't half of what it made out to be: a cheap version of the EvoX's engine. It's no where close.

https://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/15615-b...ext-level.html







You know it just as well any anybody else out there, I've seen your posts and it sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself the purchase of the 2.0T.

Korean tuners have dropped the 2.0T, most of the big HP turbo setups are all 3.8 Lambda engines.
Im not trying to justify anything. I love turbo cars and love modding them up to the level of higher displacement N/A motors. Lovefab has at least a thousand miles on a 327whp set up on a track with no problems. Beyond Redlines rod failure was most likely a tuning issue more than an engine problem. Over 350 I will absolutely agree rods and pistons are needed. Forturnately I plan on staying in teh 325 range for a while. Then building the motor and then going into the 400 whp range. I thought we were having a friendly discussion about these motors, I dont see why the personal attack was needed.




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I've said it before and here it is again... Jake doesn't raise the bar, he is the bar!

Last edited by Kamkaze; 09-21-2009 at 11:46 AM.
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I know chris the RRM car is putting down 280+ hp with I/E/Pulley, fuel controller & timing controller.

2010 Nord Grey 2.0T track 234whp 260lbs
on my way to 260whp!

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PowerAxel Custom Veo Com Tuned, AEM CAI, RRM Crank Pulley, RRM Shift knob, CXRacing FMIC, MXP TBE, LoveFab Turbo Manifold, HKS SSQV, BuddyClub Coilovers, Progress rear sway bar, Tanabe front sway bar, Tanabe strut bar, Tanabe chassis brace, Carbonfiber H, Custom Fog light Grill (dremel + paint), Sarona Grill, XXR 522 19" Chromium & tint.
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Im not trying to justify anything. I love turbo cars and love modding them up to the level of higher displacement N/A motors. Lovefab has at least a thousand miles on a 327whp set up on a track with no problems.
Then that is 100% fine. You chose the 2.0T because you liked the appeal of a turbo'ed 4 banger. It's an intangible, one that I cannot argue.

I can and will continue to argue that the 3.8 is an overall better powerplant, there's simply no denying that.

As far as crookedH, you just proved my point.

The first dyno you linked me to showed a 244whp baseline for a ZF 6spd AUTO.

The second from Vtom, again a ZF 6 spd AUTO, shows 270whp with an intake and a custom exhaust. No tune.

That's 26whp just from intake and custom exhaust (w/ cat. deletes).
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I know chris the RRM car is putting down 280+ hp with I/E/Pulley, fuel controller & timing controller.
That's something I'm eager to see. RRM needs to put together a dyno with all of their products.
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Then that is 100% fine. You chose the 2.0T because you liked the appeal of a turbo'ed 4 banger. It's an intangible, one that I cannot argue.

I can and will continue to argue that the 3.8 is an overall better powerplant, there's simply no denying that.
I can an will continue to disagree. I think with a properly built motor the 2.0t will stay step for step with the 3.8.




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I've said it before and here it is again... Jake doesn't raise the bar, he is the bar!
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i chose the 2.0 becuase the parts are cheaper. internals 1400 FTW

1500 atp turbo, internals 1400, reflash 500.

reliable 350whp, with plenty of room for improvement.

2010 Nord Grey 2.0T track 234whp 260lbs
on my way to 260whp!

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post #158 of 196 Old 09-21-2009
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I can and will continue to argue that the 3.8 is an overall better powerplant, there's simply no denying that.

As far as crookedH, you just proved my point.

The first dyno you linked me to showed a 244whp baseline for a ZF 6spd AUTO.

The second from Vtom, again a ZF 6 spd AUTO, shows 270whp with an intake and a custom exhaust. No tune.

That's 26whp just from intake and custom exhaust (w/ cat. deletes).
If it's so easy and doable, WHERES THE PROOF?? You can say all you want and throw all the speculation you want, it doesn't do anything. It may be doable, but until there's proof it's all speculation. I'm hoping you can come up with something, as I really don't mind being proven wrong, and I hope for the V6 guys the engine CAN do what you say, otherwise the 3.8 is a joke compared to the Z/G/Camaro V6.

BTW, the thread isn't even about which is a better power plant. The thread is about how much it would cost to get V6 or better power from the 2.0T. so if you feel like making love to you V6 headers, try doing it in an on topic way.

I'm not delusional, I realize that with unlimited money the V6 will OBVIOUSLY be a better power plant. But that's not what this thread is about and given equal amounts of money you're going to see about equal power from the engines.




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There, they're, their guys. Lets not getting out of hand.

They're both great motors, we should be thankful we have the option to get a V6 Z/G/Camaro competitor, and a 2.0t Solstice/Nissan240 competitor.
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Solstice GXP, same Engine / Turbo as the Cobalt but its RWD. I had issues with misfiring, random limp mode codes, and in the end I lost compression in cylinder #1 which ended up bending some valves and the car spent 60days in the shop. Thing is though my friend has the same car and now he is going through with detonation, misfiring, oil leak from the turbo that the tech's can't fix. And my car only had 9k miles lol. And my car was stock with only GM Performance upgrades (Tune and CAI). Also people are now reporting that they see a crack in the turbo but GM has said that it is normal wear and tear. The car uses a K04 turbo and the engine has great internals unless your going 600whp+.
The only problem with hitting high hp from what I've read is being able to get upgraded [direct injection] injectors to go very far above 350whp. The Solstice/Sky does have direct injection like the turbo Cobalt, correct?

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Yeah it is direct injection like the cobalt but people have 400whp bigger turbo set ups right now and no fuel issues yet so GM really stepped it up with the direct injection.

Also I don't really think the 2.0 gen coupe is a competitor to the solstice at all since the solstice starts with 260/260 at the crank stock and with just a tune it will take the car to 280whp and 335wtq
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