The end of an era? - Page 2 - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #21 of 62 Old 03-25-2019
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Evora is a pretty car... Jag is that heavy? yikes.
Thats funny, I discovered/purchased my 2014 genesis ultimate 3.8 auto when shopping for a Lotus Evora. Almost bought a very nice used one for $50K with only 7K miles. I think for me I made the better choice.
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post #22 of 62 Old 03-26-2019
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3700LBS for a luxury coupe isn't that much. The Audis, BMW, MERC, Alfa Romeo and Infiniti Q60 are heavier. Anything under 3500 is considered light actually. Over 3900 like a GTR is heavy. Of course most of those cars offer AWD but that's the norm.
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post #23 of 62 Old 03-26-2019
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it's a lot for a 2 seater. but yeah, everything's heavy now. makes you appreciate Lotus that much more.
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The Lotus Evora as well as the Elise, and Exeige are great sports/track cars but are very spartan with no amenities, some of the reason for the low weight. If thats a acceptable trade off then it might suit you well. Personally if im going to go that minimalistic, id take a look at a AC Mono, KTM Crossbow, Ariel Atom/Nomad, etc.
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post #25 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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If the GC is still in good condition, I would just keep it. In like 5 years, it will be considered "light",
And it's easier enough to just yank everything out of the chassis and put in whatever powertrain you like.
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post #26 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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Originally Posted by lvdukerider View Post
The Lotus Evora as well as the Elise, and Exeige are great sports/track cars but are very spartan with no amenities, some of the reason for the low weight. If thats a acceptable trade off then it might suit you well. Personally if im going to go that minimalistic, id take a look at a AC Mono, KTM Crossbow, Ariel Atom/Nomad, etc.
Where did you get that from? Have you ever been in an Evora? The Elise, Exige, yeah, you're right, harsh and tight and minimalist. Evora is a different beast, though. The car is not spartan. It has far more and better features than my Gen, and aught to at 3x the price, new. This is not a cramped uncomfortable car. It's refined almost quiet inside, and while not plush(it does remind you of its sportiness frequently) it has one of the most supple yet settled and confidence inspiring rides I've ever experienced. Drive it all day and you don't feel abused. The Evora is 90% liveable GT car. Really only miserly on cargo capacity. And that massaged Camry V6 mated to the transverse Aisin 6-Speed is near buttery perfection. I don't as a practice recommend British cars, but this one's a gem.

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post #27 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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To add, the Evora is the modern day equivalent to the lotus esprit.
It's the low end of an average car weight by today's standards, with a toyota v6
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post #28 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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Where did you get that from? Have you ever been in an Evora? The Elise, Exige, yeah, you're right, harsh and tight and minimalist. Evora is a different beast, though. The car is not spartan. It has far more and better features than my Gen, and aught to at 3x the price, new. This is not a cramped uncomfortable car. It's refined almost quiet inside, and while not plush(it does remind you of its sportiness frequently) it has one of the most supple yet settled and confidence inspiring rides I've ever experienced. Drive it all day and you don't feel abused. The Evora is 90% liveable GT car. Really only miserly on cargo capacity. And that massaged Camry V6 mated to the transverse Aisin 6-Speed is near buttery perfection. I don't as a practice recommend British cars, but this one's a gem.
Well actually yes i have, a red 2014 normally aspirated one with 7K miles I almost purchaced over my 14 ultimate in 2014 for $50K, granted im not claiming to be any type of expert or anything, and i still think its a really cool car but for me it was too hard get in and out, had no trunk to speak of, it had a very plain stereo/sound system, and one very small aluminum cup holder that appeared to be tacked on as a afterthought, lightly used with a toyota V6 for $50K. Im certain it would run rings around my Genesis on the track, but i dont drive on the track. Im not saying its a bad car, i think its a great car for the right buyer, it just wasn't what i was after thats all.
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post #29 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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Oooh, you guys are speaking my language...I've been looking at Evora's for about 2 years. I have yet to drive one, which is one reason I haven't bought one yet. I was considering a Yellow one over the past year and was almost ready to pull the trigger. While I like the exotic look and decent performance of the NA model, it does appear very spartan to me, too. I've never been inside one, so I could be wrong.

But, I compare it to my '13 GC Track, and I can't really figure out why I'd want to part with $45k+ for an Evora (I'm looking at 2014's and older, mind you) and although it's lighter, and more agile, it doesn't seem to offer much more beyond the exotic look.

I recently compounded/polished the GC and ceramic coated it, with a clear bra...it looks effing amazing. Also got new wheels since the OEM's are a little thick for today's style. I still feel like the GC is the first car that I've ever truly loved...and I've owned and driven many.

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post #30 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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Well actually yes i have, a red 2014 normally aspirated one with 7K miles I almost purchaced over my 14 ultimate in 2014 for $50K, granted im not claiming to be any type of expert or anything, and i still think its a really cool car but for me it was too hard get in and out, had no trunk to speak of, it had a very plain stereo/sound system, and one very small aluminum cup holder that appeared to be tacked on as a afterthought, lightly used with a toyota V6 for $50K. Im certain it would run rings around my Genesis on the track, but i dont drive on the track. Im not saying its a bad car, i think its a great car for the right buyer, it just wasn't what i was after thats all.
OK, but all Evoras have a reasonable-for-a-mid-engined-car trunk behind the engine bay. I think we're just spoilt with gargantuan levels of space for a "Sports Car". I remember my E46 vert being a joke at Costco. So Evoras for cargo space and space in general, yeah, that's the lacking piece. Its dynamically an excellent GT car. But practicality for long road trips is sub optimal. Though, with the 2+2 configuration I'd say there's plenty of room for luggage, at least. Beverages and snacks, not so much. And then, getting in and out does suck, but it does also in my lowered coupe in my narrow garage... Chalk it up to perspective?

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post #31 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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Agreed.
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Oooh, you guys are speaking my language...I've been looking at Evora's for about 2 years. I have yet to drive one, which is one reason I haven't bought one yet. I was considering a Yellow one over the past year and was almost ready to pull the trigger. While I like the exotic look and decent performance of the NA model, it does appear very spartan to me, too. I've never been inside one, so I could be wrong.

But, I compare it to my '13 GC Track, and I can't really figure out why I'd want to part with $45k+ for an Evora (I'm looking at 2014's and older, mind you) and although it's lighter, and more agile, it doesn't seem to offer much more beyond the exotic look.

I recently compounded/polished the GC and ceramic coated it, with a clear bra...it looks effing amazing. Also got new wheels since the OEM's are a little thick for today's style. I still feel like the GC is the first car that I've ever truly loved...and I've owned and driven many.
Go test drive a new one, i know you said your looking at 2014 and older but it will give you an idea if its for you or not,they really are sharp looking and nice handling. It might actually give you a new perspective/appreciation on your coupe, if you think your lowered coupe is difficult to get in and out of just try the Evora.😁
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post #33 of 62 Old 03-27-2019
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Originally Posted by lvdukerider View Post
Go test drive a new one, i know you said your looking at 2014 and older but it will give you an idea if its for you or not,they really are sharp looking and nice handling. It might actually give you a new perspective/appreciation on your coupe, if you think your lowered coupe is difficult to get in and out of just try the Evora.😁
Uhh, that wasn't me with a problem getting in and out of my GC. I have no issue with that. I have an MR2 Spyder that I autocross...lowered with fixed race seats...THAT is hard to get in and out of, and I don't mind.

I don't see the point in driving a 2018 Evora...I'm sure it'll handle and perform better than an older model, but it's not something I'd get so I'd want to drive the model year I'm looking at.

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For Evora money, I would just get something that I wouldn't have to worry about parting in a parking lot, and invest the rest into something else in life
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I feel you bro. I've been slowly watching this happen for years. Remember when Nissan announced the IDx would go into production? I was ecstatic! Especially since I was a big Nissan fanboy and had a bunch of broke down 240s in my yard. And then! They had the nerve to come out and say that they feel the Juke has satisfied that market lol.

Issue is, the US is the largest car market in the world. If a vehicle is not going to sell here then a manufacturer really has no reason to build it. Also like others have said, regulations have played a big part in the death of these sports cars. Vehicles have to reach certain safety standards etc etc. They are getting heavy and more costly to build.

The crossover SUV has been massively successful in the US. For good reason. These vehicles are cheap, look sporty, good on gas, cheap on insurance, spacious. If I were to start a family in all honesty I'd buy me a 2019 Honda CRV for $20,000. Great car.

Furthermore, the death of the manual transmission! I've been working in dealerships for a few years now and they won't even order manual transmissions. Even if the customer wants the vehicle in manual (Which is rare) they push to sell the automatic.


Regardless, I do love my Genesis Coupe. I plan on driving this car for a long time. I probably won't ever sell it. In regards to the sports car market, I think we live in a great time. Older generation sports cars are everywhere, and affordable. Soon most of them will be lost to time.
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post #36 of 62 Old 03-28-2019
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I feel you bro. I've been slowly watching this happen for years. Remember when Nissan announced the IDx would go into production? I was ecstatic! Especially since I was a big Nissan fanboy and had a bunch of broke down 240s in my yard. And then! They had the nerve to come out and say that they feel the Juke has satisfied that market lol.

Issue is, the US is the largest car market in the world. If a vehicle is not going to sell here then a manufacturer really has no reason to build it. Also like others have said, regulations have played a big part in the death of these sports cars. Vehicles have to reach certain safety standards etc etc. They are getting heavy and more costly to build.

The crossover SUV has been massively successful in the US. For good reason. These vehicles are cheap, look sporty, good on gas, cheap on insurance, spacious. If I were to start a family in all honesty I'd buy me a 2019 Honda CRV for $20,000. Great car.

Furthermore, the death of the manual transmission! I've been working in dealerships for a few years now and they won't even order manual transmissions. Even if the customer wants the vehicle in manual (Which is rare) they push to sell the automatic.


Regardless, I do love my Genesis Coupe. I plan on driving this car for a long time. I probably won't ever sell it. In regards to the sports car market, I think we live in a great time. Older generation sports cars are everywhere, and affordable. Soon most of them will be lost to time.
Actually the largest auto market is china, but with import costs, annual income per household, and the shear number of china auto manufacturers; the market isn't really there for non-chinese cars, unless they set up a factory in china, but then there is still import costs on materials.

I was under the impression that dealers order automatics for inventory to mark up costs. What I mean is a customer is more likely to buy a car that is already on the lot, than ordering one.
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I was under the impression that dealers order automatics for inventory to mark up costs. What I mean is a customer is more likely to buy a car that is already on the lot, than ordering one.
Well honestly when selling anything a customer will pay a premium to get what he wants. Also A few years ago a manual car was significantly cheaper than its automatic twin, but these days the price difference between manual/auto is negligible when you are looking at the MSRP or even the invoice of the vehicle. In fact I remember manual sports cars being more expensive than their counterparts. And an everyday base model of a vehicle with a manual transmission is maybe 200-300 cheaper than the automatic version. I think this is mainly why dealers do not stock them. Because nobody would buy one if the automatic is the same price. What I'm saying is there are customers who come in looking for a manual and are willing to put a down payment to order one, but the of course the sales manager wants a deal TODAY. So they push the buyer to get an auto instead. We'd have to come up with excuses like oh there are no manuals in the entire state, we've looked through our system. Oh we've found a manual, but its in that color that you said you hated. Etc etc.

Also it's been like a year since I've worked at a dealership and the past year I was in that business I had flipped through like 3 dealers so things are a bit fuzzy.


But I would like to say, I don't think it's entirely dealers fault that the manual is dying. They are accelerating the process and are definitely are not helping. However, the manual started to die a long time ago. With technologies like the CVT transmission, Dual Clutch Transmissions. The only reason to get a manual these days is for novelty and fun factor. Especially since those CVTs are so efficient.
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Well honestly when selling anything a customer will pay a premium to get what he wants. Also A few years ago a manual car was significantly cheaper than its automatic twin, but these days the price difference between manual/auto is negligible when you are looking at the MSRP or even the invoice of the vehicle. In fact I remember manual sports cars being more expensive than their counterparts. And an everyday base model of a vehicle with a manual transmission is maybe 200-300 cheaper than the automatic version. I think this is mainly why dealers do not stock them. Because nobody would buy one if the automatic is the same price. What I'm saying is there are customers who come in looking for a manual and are willing to put a down payment to order one, but the of course the sales manager wants a deal TODAY. So they push the buyer to get an auto instead. We'd have to come up with excuses like oh there are no manuals in the entire state, we've looked through our system. Oh we've found a manual, but its in that color that you said you hated. Etc etc.

Also it's been like a year since I've worked at a dealership and the past year I was in that business I had flipped through like 3 dealers so things are a bit fuzzy.


But I would like to say, I don't think it's entirely dealers fault that the manual is dying. They are accelerating the process and are definitely are not helping. However, the manual started to die a long time ago. With technologies like the CVT transmission, Dual Clutch Transmissions. The only reason to get a manual these days is for novelty and fun factor. Especially since those CVTs are so efficient.
Cvt are the bane of automotive society. If I wanted a cvt or an automatic now-a-days, I might as well get an electric.
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Cvt are the bane of automotive society. If I wanted a cvt or an automatic now-a-days, I might as well get an electric.

Bro! You just reminded me gosh. I get sidetracked easily... But a point I wanted to make on my first post is that the future of affordable enthusiast cars is ELECTRIC. Now hear me out and tell me whether or not I'm crazy. We've seen the performance on these Teslas right. Tesla model 3 smokes a stock 2.0t Genny in the 0-60mph. What do we know? Manufactures are eager to get into the EV market. They would kill to have even just 1/10th of the cool factor Tesla has right now. They are in a very real and intense race to see who can come out with the most technologically advanced, practical and head turning EV. They need to start conversation and prove to their shareholders that they have staying power and will remain relevant for years to come. So imagine this. Nissan. With is reputation in the enthusiast scene tarnished. I mean, the 370z has been the same car for the past like 15 years. The GTR is out of reach for most people. And sure its cool, but not worth the price IMO. They're Juke Nismo got s*** on by the media. People have been begging for a successor to the 240sx to take on the 86/BRZ. They don't really have any good hybrids/EVs on the market right now.

Why not come out with an all electric RWD Hatchback Coupe. Picture this; long wheelbase, sits low to the ground. Ideally same interior dimensions as the genesis coupe. Battery distribution helps bring weight distribution to 50/50. No trans. Just simulated gears. Not very fast on the top end but low-end torque makes it very easy to break traction. It sparks the idea of an electric vehicle being a viable track car. Also, its not engineered to be an accessory to your Apple brand lifestyle like Tesla. Where Tesla is streamlined and sleek this should be rough around the edges and wide around the fenders. Aggressive. The noise from the electric engines should be heard loud and clear and if possible make that optional. Electronically controlled sound amplification. Also, It should be engineered with the younger crowd in mind. Succeed where Scion failed. Make the vehicle personal. What I mean is, make it easy to work on. Not talking about drive train repairs, but accessories. They could add 12v hookups hidden under the interior panels with their own individual stock buttons. Easy way to route wires from the front to the back. Headlights/tails easily removable. The infotainment system should be be able to customize every little thing in the car from custom lights to the sound the car makes when the keyfobs churp to interior lighting colors.

Anyways just a passing thought. I think this would be amazing and I think the conditions are right. The stars are aligning. A sports car for the masses is the perfect vehicle (no pun intended) to take any auto manufacturer into the EV market. Provided it makes a connection with the people, which EVs as of yet have failed to do. Even Teslas cars, they are no doubt great, but I don't expect the Model 3 or S to have a cult following 15-20 years from now. People don't have a personal relationship with those cars. You can't change a headlamp without going to the dealer. To make a connection people need something raw and flawed, but in a good way.

Also I think Nissan is an interesting idea since they don't really have anything going for them. And if it was a true successor to the s15 oh man. It would go down in history. The next generation. Originally I felt like the idea would be better suited for Toyota since they are always trying new things and they do have the ae86 which is very successful. Unfortunately they have the Supra and the ae86 now. I don't think they'd be developing another coupe anytime soon lol. Hyundai Might pull this off, but they don't have the reputation yet. Look at the Kia Niro, one of the best hybrids on the market. But, it is still a kia.

Sorry for the walls of text. Sitting here alone at the office bored
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Bro! You just reminded me gosh. I get sidetracked easily... But a point I wanted to make on my first post is that the future of affordable enthusiast cars is ELECTRIC. Now hear me out and tell me whether or not I'm crazy. We've seen the performance on these Teslas right. Tesla model 3 smokes a stock 2.0t Genny in the 0-60mph. What do we know? Manufactures are eager to get into the EV market. They would kill to have even just 1/10th of the cool factor Tesla has right now. They are in a very real and intense race to see who can come out with the most technologically advanced, practical and head turning EV. They need to start conversation and prove to their shareholders that they have staying power and will remain relevant for years to come. So imagine this. Nissan. With is reputation in the enthusiast scene tarnished. I mean, the 370z has been the same car for the past like 15 years. The GTR is out of reach for most people. And sure its cool, but not worth the price IMO. They're Juke Nismo got s*** on by the media. People have been begging for a successor to the 240sx to take on the 86/BRZ. They don't really have any good hybrids/EVs on the market right now.

Why not come out with an all electric RWD Hatchback Coupe. Picture this; long wheelbase, sits low to the ground. Ideally same interior dimensions as the genesis coupe. Battery distribution helps bring weight distribution to 50/50. No trans. Just simulated gears. Not very fast on the top end but low-end torque makes it very easy to break traction. It sparks the idea of an electric vehicle being a viable track car. Also, its not engineered to be an accessory to your Apple brand lifestyle like Tesla. Where Tesla is streamlined and sleek this should be rough around the edges and wide around the fenders. Aggressive. The noise from the electric engines should be heard loud and clear and if possible make that optional. Electronically controlled sound amplification. Also, It should be engineered with the younger crowd in mind. Succeed where Scion failed. Make the vehicle personal. What I mean is, make it easy to work on. Not talking about drive train repairs, but accessories. They could add 12v hookups hidden under the interior panels with their own individual stock buttons. Easy way to route wires from the front to the back. Headlights/tails easily removable. The infotainment system should be be able to customize every little thing in the car from custom lights to the sound the car makes when the keyfobs churp to interior lighting colors.

Anyways just a passing thought. I think this would be amazing and I think the conditions are right. The stars are aligning. A sports car for the masses is the perfect vehicle (no pun intended) to take any auto manufacturer into the EV market. Provided it makes a connection with the people, which EVs as of yet have failed to do. Even Teslas cars, they are no doubt great, but I don't expect the Model 3 or S to have a cult following 15-20 years from now. People don't have a personal relationship with those cars. You can't change a headlamp without going to the dealer. To make a connection people need something raw and flawed, but in a good way.

Also I think Nissan is an interesting idea since they don't really have anything going for them. And if it was a true successor to the s15 oh man. It would go down in history. The next generation. Originally I felt like the idea would be better suited for Toyota since they are always trying new things and they do have the ae86 which is very successful. Unfortunately they have the Supra and the ae86 now. I don't think they'd be developing another coupe anytime soon lol. Hyundai Might pull this off, but they don't have the reputation yet. Look at the Kia Niro, one of the best hybrids on the market. But, it is still a kia.

Sorry for the walls of text. Sitting here alone at the office bored
From what I have observed over the years (coming from the S30 crowd) Nissan is just trying to stay above water. They are the ONLY manufacture that offers manual windows and non power locks as standard equipment.
Plus Nissan's full electric offering is a joke, the leaf doesn't have temp controlled battery packs.

Manufacturers aren't that interested in selling accessories, they're interested in selling units. RnD and sourcing components is another factor. Plus there are aftermarket offerings with limited success.

Honda ironically will be coming out with a rwd electric with almost the same wheel base as a fit.

Tesla is another story. They focused on RnD the hell out of the motors, that is why they can get such high efficiency out of them , They use some weird opposing pole stacked magnet design.

The 2 manufacturers I can see making larger headway in terms of automotive battery tech are Renault and Hyundai/Kai
Mainly because the 2 main players in battery manufacturing is done by samsung and lg.
For those that don't know samsung actually sells cars, in korea. they are rebadge renaults.

For batteries, there are 2 main issues with the current tech.
1. longevity - as batteries discharge and recharge, the lithium starts to break down and develops a layer over the cathode/anode, which lowers output and energy storage.
2. getting away from liquid filled cells. The electrolyte that lithium is suspended in is flammable and expands as it breaks down. that is why most cells are incased in a metal cylinder (imagine the weight that can be taken out from eliminating all that metal from the batteries), and why the ones that don't eventually "puff up"
There are solid state batteries but don't offer the same discharge rates and energy storage capacity as a typical lith-ion cell.
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