Nankang experiment complete - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Nankang experiment complete

Been thinking about running 225/35's on all 4 corners replacing the stock 225/45's up front and the 245's on the back. These are 18's on my 2010 coupe. Gearing changes from 355 to 3.91. Speedo will be out 10%. Had some Nankang Ns-2's installed this morning. $100 a piece.
...Was concerned about ride quality, handling and spinning in 1st. Ride quality is good. Not as harsh as I had expected. Imo the car handles better with this set up over staggared. Tires are gripping in 1st without wheel spin. These are actually nice summer tires. 3 lbs lighter per wheel up front...4 pounds lighter per wheel in the back.
...Car is revving approx. 400 rpms higher at 62 mph. 2600....67 mph 3000...72 mph..3200. Car definately has more snap off idle to 3000. Stronger mid range. On a on ramp I frequent regularly...I could always get up to 62 mph before braking for a corner. Now showing 80 mph ( corrected to 72 mph). I find now that I am up a gear change from before In most situations on all side roads. Example..in 4th instead of 3rd. Next lowering springs and rim swap.
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post #2 of 25 Old 05-25-2019
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It sounds like you might be on to somthing, less weight and effectively lowering your final drive gearing, maybe bigger isnt always better.
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Going with bigger rims is only for looks. I wanted to try this set up to see if it would improve acceleration instead of changing out the rear pumpkin.If I want to change the gearing a bit I might throw a set of Nankang 255/35's on the back changing it to 3.78. I thought long and hard about going with light weight rims...but I'm leaning towards looks. Maybe some esr sr02's. But next change is lowering springs.
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post #4 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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Originally Posted by Genesis306 View Post
Going with bigger rims is only for looks. I wanted to try this set up to see if it would improve acceleration instead of changing out the rear pumpkin.If I want to change the gearing a bit I might throw a set of Nankang 255/35's on the back changing it to 3.78. I thought long and hard about going with light weight rims...but I'm leaning towards looks. Maybe some esr sr02's. But next change is lowering springs.
Wrong,If you know what you are doing and performance is a key aspect in your build ,then bigger rims over stock size means better tire selection can be had for given rim size .Short sighted thinking will always pull your thoughts to a wrong conclusion .To change gear ration based on using smaller cheaper tires is what the budget racer does .This will keep your performance always lower than the person that has proper funds to do it the correct way .

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Ya IDK....

When I went from OEM 19s to RPF1 18s staggered and up to 245F and 265R on the same type of tire (now 18 hankook v2s) I experienced an immediate improvement in handling and responsiveness. The wheels were just lighter so way more less rotating mass and much better feel from my coilovers. I started hearing and feeling stuff like small pebbles and cracks in the road right to the steering wheel lol. Totally different feel. And thats with 40 series tires vs. 35s

Then when I recently went to 3.91 rear ya sure I was spinning 1st, 2nd and 3rd at first.... But once I figured out how to feather the throttle better after some quick trial and error, its not an issue at all anymore. I do still fight muscle memory from having driven on the 3.53 for so many years and forget I have the new gearing sometimes.... Then yep I get alittle more sideways than I should lol.

But wider (to a point) is gonna be better for handling. I also think that a proper squared wheel, dialed in alignment and sticky tire setup can be ideal for circuit track. But its goota be setup right and not overdone. Prolly safest to stay within OEM staggered F/R ratio TBH....

I dont think I would agree that 225 all around is gonna help the car handle better. I am pretty sure if you are on stock wheel width, the rears would have quite the stretch as well back there no?

At minimum I would go OEM sizes and up from there, but not too wide. I think 265-285 (not on OEM wheel widths though) is the sweet spot.... I can tell you I wouldn't feel very good about pushing my Bk2 tuned 3.8 with 3.91 gears with 225s in the back to hard other than drifting.....

Just my $.02

If you are a 1/4 guy than eveything goes out the window lol.... It's pizza cutter fronts and M/Ts rear all day 😉
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post #6 of 25 Old 05-26-2019 Thread Starter
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I am not worried about tire selection. There are plenty of assorted brands/sizes in a 35 profile. Perhaps the car handles better to me because I went from goodyear eagle all seasons to summer tires. They are " cheap " tires as Shorttrack states...but the Nankang Ns2 is a popular tire and has received good reviews. I find they run smoother than my goodyear's...but that probably is in part from going from all season to summer.
...The 225's on the back do not look stretched at all. The stock rear is a 8...the front a 7.5. I find, at least with the stock rims, there is not much of a difference in ride quality between the 45 and 35 profile. I am probaly going to go with a 255/ 35 on the back bringing the gearing to 3.78 and raising the tire height up a bit. The current set up is a bit much for highway cruising for me. THIS is another reason why I wanted to use tire height/ width to figure out gearing...be it a budget racer mentality. It's fine for cruising at 60-65 mph. But that's about it imo. I'm just going to have a spare set of fronts now.
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post #7 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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Whats the consensus on Hyundai's reason for using a staggered set up on the coupe anyway? I know its not unheard of but it seems like extra unneccessary expense and complexity in manufacturing if there isnt some advantage to it.
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Originally Posted by lvdukerider View Post
Whats the consensus on Hyundai's reason for using a staggered set up on the coupe anyway? I know its not unheard of but it seems like extra unneccessary expense and complexity in manufacturing if there isnt some advantage to it.
You do realize this is commonplace on RWD performance cars.
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post #9 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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Mechanical grip vs too much frontal rolling friction drag is a balancing act that is easy to learn (enough info out there).I was stating my statement to Genesis 306 ,the comment he made about bigger rims are only for looks . Running squared tire size has always been about but with today's tire technology and compound selections and suspension geometry one can attain mechanical grip with a less wider front tire which will produce less rolling resistance during acceleration and rotational weight while exiting a apex or while running down the drag strip.

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Last edited by shorttrack; 05-26-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by bsbullie View Post
You do realize this is commonplace on RWD performance cars.
Well like i said i know its not unheard of but i drove/owned/worked on mostly RWD vehicles in/from the 70' and 80's and dont recall many of them coming stock with a staggered set up, although many owners did install the widest rear tires on Craigers or slotted mags that would fit, making them handle worse than stock, but i get that those were a much different type "performance car" than what we have today. "The GC as delivered is decent at the limit but has too much understeer designed in so knuckleheads arenít crashing themselves all over the canyons in CA". I found this quote in the wheel/tire section, i suppose maybe its just done for liability purposes.
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Originally Posted by shorttrack View Post
Mechanical grip vs to much frontal rolling friction drag is a balancing act that is easy to learn (enough info out there).I was stating my statement to Genesis 306 ,the comment he made about bigger rims are only for looks . Running squared tire size has always been about but with today's tire technology and compound selections and suspension geometry one can attain mechanical grip with a less wider front tire which will produce less rolling resistance during acceleration and rotational weight while exiting a apex or while running down the drag strip.
So better tire/suspention technology allowing the same amount of grip from a smaller tire taking advantage of less rolling resistance and lighter weigh, at least for the non driven wheels. I assume this may also create a faster/lighter turn in response. Makes sense.
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post #12 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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Originally Posted by lvdukerider View Post
So better tire/suspention technology allowing the same amount of grip from a smaller tire taking advantage of less rolling resistance and lighter weigh, at least for the non driven wheels. I assume this may also create a faster/lighter turn in response. Makes sense.
Yes sir, If one views a modern well set up rear wheel drive race or OEM car the rear wheels are always larger than the front .

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I recently got my coupe paid off. Thought about trading up but do not want another car payment for 5 years. Besides...it might be 9 years old, but is still mint. Just turned 115,000 kms( 69,000 miles). Never seen a snowflake and is stored 6 months of the year.
...Decided to sink a few dollars into it. Ordering eibach lowering springs tomorrow. 1.4" drop in the front. 1.6 in the back. Then either a set of Esr-sr02's, Xxr 968's or Jnc 010's in silver machined face. All 3 look awesome against a black coupe...decisions..decisions..lol. Then a new clutch and lighter flywheel.
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post #14 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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This from a Google search, as to reasons for staggered tires:

"As mentioned earlier, staggered tire setups on performance vehicles can help to achieve a desired handling balance, but that balance isn’t necessarily all about outright grip and performance. Staggered tire setups can also encourage a level of handling safety and security.

Staggered tire setups with smaller width tires at the front axle generally produce understeer near the handling limit. Understeer, or a vehicle’s tendency to “push” through a corner, is considered a safer limit handling characteristic than oversteer, which is when the rear of the car breaks traction and moves around during aggressive cornering."

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post #15 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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Don't forget, though... Modern OEM liability leads the beancounters to direct the engineers to default to understeer as the safer traction failure mode. Smaller front contact patches aid greatly in the "safety"(liability) game from big manufacturers. So a good or even excellent front mechanical grip geometry, which might otherwise out-grip the rears, can be playfull, yet still default to understeer via a smaller than optimal(for performance) contact patch.

Mostly, I'd say square is a good starting point and likely makes the fastest but not the most predictable car. Focus on max usable grip for acceleration. Then depending on your chassis, dial back the front contact patches until you reach your personally comfortable balance or slight oversteer. I actually find that once I went to better shoes(Michelin) from the Hankooks I was on before, the Factory 20mm spread seems about right. I tried 265 square for a bit, but I lost way too much angle, and the car was too darty. Like, sneezing became a problem on rough roads, LOL. Also, the front poke was ludicrous.

Now I rock 255/275 F/R. No rub, slight poke. Car is still very nimble, perhaps a tad darty, but not so much as to negatively upset rear traction under accel. It's very manageable if you're paying attention, though. And I got a lot of MPG back from when my crazy a$$ tried to run minimal camber 295s on the rear. Those were stupid overkill for daily driving.

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The grip on these Nankang ns2's seems to be effective...even if it is just a 225/35 on the back. I'm just running a Magnaflow CBE, test pipes and Injen sri though. Taking off and shifting at redline I cannot feel/detect any slippage. To be expected its breaking the back tires harder now when shifting into second.
...I have not pushed it real hard in sharp corners because of all the info I have heard about how the rear could kick out easier. If I am pulling away from a stop sign and turning right or left..its very easy to snap it sideways now..again that's to be expected. Definately, pulls harder down low , and especially in the midrange.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -fritz- View Post
This from a Google search, as to reasons for staggered tires:

"As mentioned earlier, staggered tire setups on performance vehicles can help to achieve a desired handling balance, but that balance isnít necessarily all about outright grip and performance. Staggered tire setups can also encourage a level of handling safety and security.

Staggered tire setups with smaller width tires at the front axle generally produce understeer near the handling limit. Understeer, or a vehicleís tendency to ďpushĒ through a corner, is considered a safer limit handling characteristic than oversteer, which is when the rear of the car breaks traction and moves around during aggressive cornering."
The rigid collars and larger rear sway bar cured my car of understeer.
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post #18 of 25 Old 05-26-2019
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Originally Posted by superchode View Post
Ya IDK....

When I went from OEM 19s to RPF1 18s staggered and up to 245F and 265R on the same type of tire (now 18 hankook v2s) I experienced an immediate improvement in handling and responsiveness. The wheels were just lighter so way more less rotating mass and much better feel from my coilovers. I started hearing and feeling stuff like small pebbles and cracks in the road right to the steering wheel lol. Totally different feel. And thats with 40 series tires vs. 35s



But wider (to a point) is gonna be better for handling. I also think that a proper squared wheel, dialed in alignment and sticky tire setup can be ideal for circuit track.

At minimum I would go OEM sizes and up from there, but not too wide. I think 265-285 (not on OEM wheel widths though) is the sweet spot.... I can tell you I wouldn't feel very good about pushing my Bk2 tuned 3.8 with 3.91 gears with 225s in the back to hard other than drifting.....

Just my $.02

If you are a 1/4 guy than eveything goes out the window lol.... It's pizza cutter fronts and M/Ts rear all day 😉
Well put .

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Originally Posted by superchode View Post
Ya IDK....

When I went from OEM 19s to RPF1 18s staggered and up to 245F and 265R on the same type of tire (now 18 hankook v2s) I experienced an immediate improvement in handling and responsiveness. The wheels were just lighter so way more less rotating mass and much better feel from my coilovers. I started hearing and feeling stuff like small pebbles and cracks in the road right to the steering wheel lol. Totally different feel. And thats with 40 series tires vs. 35s

Then when I recently went to 3.91 rear ya sure I was spinning 1st, 2nd and 3rd at first.... But once I figured out how to feather the throttle better after some quick trial and error, its not an issue at all anymore. I do still fight muscle memory from having driven on the 3.53 for so many years and forget I have the new gearing sometimes.... Then yep I get alittle more sideways than I should lol.

But wider (to a point) is gonna be better for handling. I also think that a proper squared wheel, dialed in alignment and sticky tire setup can be ideal for circuit track. But its goota be setup right and not overdone. Prolly safest to stay within OEM staggered F/R ratio TBH....

I dont think I would agree that 225 all around is gonna help the car handle better. I am pretty sure if you are on stock wheel width, the rears would have quite the stretch as well back there no?

At minimum I would go OEM sizes and up from there, but not too wide. I think 265-285 (not on OEM wheel widths though) is the sweet spot.... I can tell you I wouldn't feel very good about pushing my Bk2 tuned 3.8 with 3.91 gears with 225s in the back to hard other than drifting.....

Just my $.02

If you are a 1/4 guy than eveything goes out the window lol.... It's pizza cutter fronts and M/Ts rear all day 😉
This is super helpful post, thanks bro. Since mine on their fourth year, I think Iíll go from 19 to 18 and pick hankook summer.
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...So for me it was a wise choice to play with gearing by switching tire size instead of going through the hassle of swapping out the rear pumpkin. If I spent most of my time riding on side roads...driving through the city and such 3.91 would be ideal.
...But i commute to and from work 25 miles each way by highway/ freeway. For me, its revving a bit much. It's ok for cruising at 60-65 mph...but that's about it imo. Going to go to a 265/35 on the back on a 10.5 " rim adjusting gearing to about 3.73...that should be ideal...still a noticable boost over the stock gearing.
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