New supra a stud or a dud? - Hyundai Genesis Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 01-27-2019 Thread Starter
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Exclamation New supra a stud or a dud?

I just want to hear what you guys have to say about the new supra.

Personally, I think it was a very stupid decision for Toyota to team up with BMW. It's honestly a huge disgrace in my eyes, the specs aren't too bad but the body is just... yuck. It's sad to see one of the kings of the JDM community be stuffed with a German engine.
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post #2 of 21 Old 01-28-2019
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Whatever keeps mass market sports cars around has my support.
Without joint ventures they'd all be making nothing but suv's.
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-28-2019
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Exactly my thoughts. Toyota went the lazy way out and just carried over the i6 from BMW instead of designing their own. I could get over the mediocre front end, but the engine? Laugh out loud. Supra name that was up there with the Skyline/GTR and NSX then come out with a remodeled Z4..................................
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It’s disappointing on two fronts:

A) there is not even a hint of lineage to previous Supras. If they’re saying there is, they hid it pretty well.
B) I can’t help but think, “You had a clean sheet of paper, and THIS is what you came up with?”

The rear treatment isn’t bad, but the front end is a disappointment in actual production form. The early spyshots and renderings had me thinking it would look much better as a final product. I wouldn’t give up my Coupe for it.
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-28-2019
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My real only gripe is its automatic only...

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My real only gripe is its automatic only...
what do you expect, BMW drivers barely even know how to use a turn signal. A third peddle would have just blown their minds away
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-28-2019
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as long as the engine is tuned and finessed by yamaha again, it "should" better than the same engine from other cars.

but with the base engine they chose, it looks like they are aiming at the fiat 4C market (Basing it from base engine and projected prices. which is stupid IMO, and hardly is any market for it)

If it was 10~15 grand less, I could see these flying out showrooms. Even 5 grand less would be more reasonable from the 40K that sights are projecting for the base mode, but that could be, because of tariffs.

I had a first gen Z car for 10+ years, and I can see having such a long hood being annoying, if you're not use to it already.
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-28-2019
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Originally Posted by L8Braker View Post
It’s disappointing on two fronts:

A) there is not even a hint of lineage to previous Supras. If they’re saying there is, they hid it pretty well.
B) I can’t help but think, “You had a clean sheet of paper, and THIS is what you came up with?”

The rear treatment isn’t bad, but the front end is a disappointment in actual production form. The early spyshots and renderings had me thinking it would look much better as a final product. I wouldn’t give up my Coupe for it.
Ditto. Looks ok from the rear. Side view and front just don't look right to the eye at all. Looks pieced together from the side. And the fact that it bases at 330hp for 50k in today's market, really???
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Originally Posted by AKGC View Post
as long as the engine is tuned and finessed by yamaha again, it "should" better than the same engine from other cars.

but with the base engine they chose, it looks like they are aiming at the fiat 4C market (Basing it from base engine and projected prices. which is stupid IMO, and hardly is any market for it)

If it was 10~15 grand less, I could see these flying out showrooms. Even 5 grand less would be more reasonable from the 40K that sights are projecting for the base mode, but that could be, because of tariffs.

I had a first gen Z car for 10+ years, and I can see having such a long hood being annoying, if you're not use to it already.
Yamaha FTW. Crazy how many good engines they have their name on. Bikes and automobiles.
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-29-2019
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From what I know about it so far I'd say 6.5/10, it will probably be a pretty decent car but the price is probably a little more on the "premium" side for what you're getting. People are whining about BMW having a part in it, but when did BMW German engineering become a bad thing? I'm not super thrilled with the front end, but the rear looks pretty good imo.

- Closed deck, forged bottom end (crank, rods, pistons...) it should handle some decent power without needing to break the bottom end open.

- Automatic transmission isn't what I would want, but on the bright side, the BMW ZF transmission is really good and is rated to 770 lb*ft so if people decide to mod the car it should hold up.

- Might not sound that great since the manifold is built into the head

- Single twin scroll turbo isn't a bad thing

- BMW ECU has been cracked so aftermarket tuning should be plentiful, unlike the MKIV ECU which was locked and you basically had to go standalone.

- Its going to handle better than the MKIV

- 50/50 weight distribution

- If you take inflation into account, the MKV is like $20,000 cheaper than the MKIV

I didn't want them to release a 2020 MKIV, that would be dumb. If Toyota had to partner with BMW so that we could get another sports car on the market I'm all for it. I mean, they could have done much worse than BMW and partnered with say Hyundai. A lot of people whining about it never owned an MKIV and will never own an MKV. The main mystique around the MKIV had to do with the modding and aftermarket capability. Without the 2JZ-GTE being an overbuilt engine, no one would have given two shits about it. The MKV is off to a good start with the B58 being a closed deck block with a forged bottom end. If tuners start cranking out 600whp on the stock bottom end I think people will suddenly stop caring that its a BMW engine.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of it. I definitely won't be buying a first production year.

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post #11 of 21 Old 01-29-2019
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I think it would be an infinitely better product with some mild and modernized cosmetic changes reminiscent of the Mk IV. As @RedGen13 says, the fundamentals seem solid and I think most of this whining will stop if the OEM guts start cranking some healthy power.

I'm not a manual purist if the DCT is fast.




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post #13 of 21 Old 01-30-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraxbert View Post
I think it would be an infinitely better product with some mild and modernized cosmetic changes reminiscent of the Mk IV. As @RedGen13 says, the fundamentals seem solid and I think most of this whining will stop if the OEM guts start cranking some healthy power.

I'm not a manual purist if the DCT is fast.



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I wonder what the designers are thinking when they go to work on a Monday, "Hey, let's build a really ugly car and say that it's the descendant of a fine older car that we used to make. Then we can charge twice what it's worth, and make tons of money!"

At least they made the grill look about 3 times better than that fugly Lexus mess!
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Originally Posted by RedGen13 View Post
when did BMW German engineering become a bad thing?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/b...emissions.html

To me, the styling is much more reminiscent of the 2000GT than any of the Supras.
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See the thing is while it does have a well-built engine and transmission... it yells "BMW". A car with the supra emblem should not do that at all. It's like an ego thing for me I guess, I'm team JDM and KDM and like to talk smack on German cars... now I can't. The supra is known for its glorious overbuilt 2jz engine built by TOYOTA. I think Toyota would have been fine without BMW butting in and putting in one of there 100k wonder and overcomplicated engines in it. We all know dam* well it was BMW who came up with that automatic only idea.
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-01-2019
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Originally Posted by Sergio Sanchez View Post
See the thing is while it does have a well-built engine and transmission... it yells "BMW". A car with the supra emblem should not do that at all. It's like an ego thing for me I guess, I'm team JDM and KDM and like to talk smack on German cars... now I can't. The supra is known for its glorious overbuilt 2jz engine built by TOYOTA. I think Toyota would have been fine without BMW butting in and putting in one of there 100k wonder and overcomplicated engines in it. We all know dam* well it was BMW who came up with that automatic only idea.
I don't think this is a perfect car by any means, I feel like it is a bit overpriced considering its a Toyota that makes less than 350hp. It would make more sense to me if it was mid-$40k range. They are definitely trying to charge a bit of a premium because of the Supra name.

But, if this wasn't called the Supra would people have been excited that Toyota launched a new 6cyl turbo sports car? I think they would, and getting caught up on the fact it is called the Supra seems a bit silly. What if this was the new Celica, and Toyota just said we are never bringing back the Supra? Would that have changed people's minds?

The MKIV would have been $70,000 today, would people be willing to pay an additional $20,000 if that meant the MKV was a Toyota powered vehicle? Can the majority of the people complaining even afford that?

I personally don't like BMWs, mostly because of their owners, so I do understand you views from that standpoint. The sad reality is that we probably would have never gotten this car had Toyota not partnered with BMW. In a world where automotive manufacturer's are only making crossover SUVs, I'm honestly just happy to have another option for car enthusiasts whether it is what everyone wants or not.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, it seems to have some good things going for it and it isn't a complete dud. We will have to see what the aftermarket can really make it into.

Quote:
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/b...emissions.html

To me, the styling is much more reminiscent of the 2000GT than any of the Supras.
That was shady emissions practices that only affected 11,400 vehicles. This had nothing to do with the engineering or how well the engines were built.

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Last supra had engine designed by Yamaha and originally borrowed derived from Buick back in 60 - strait 6
New supra by BMW.

Asians hardly ever invent anything, they works off something that was already developed or found and impove on it.

Toyota has not made a sports car that was developed solely by them, but this new supra is 90% BMW and its poor stamp at what it can be. STRATCH platform to same dimensions as last supra and put rear seats similar to Porsche 911 - will have better proportions and will be a more of unique car.

Right now its same thing as Chrysler crossfire - which was resigned Mercedes with better suspension.





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Here is an interesting video on how the 2020 Supra came to be :

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Interesting video.

The problem for me is that we were teased with the FT1 concept, which looks like it should be racing at LeMans this June, and what we got was the Zupra, which looks like something a Prius driver wants for the weekend.

FT1

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