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post #1 of 17 Old 01-21-2019 Thread Starter
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Dumb question about compatibility

I want to upgrade to the following:
1. Front 30mm Whiteline Sway Bar (good choice?)
2. PBM Competition Coilovers

Will this work and what adjustable endlinks should I get? I've read good things about Powergrid, ATQ, Moog, Enthuspec.

I have a 2013 bk2.

2013 Grand Touring 3.8: R2C SRI | ISR Single Exit | Manifold Riser | TROS Potent Boster 2 | Engine Leash | Saikou Michi | Klutch KM20 | Whiteline Sways | Parts Shop MAX Competition | Moog & Powergrid Links | Brembo Swap | Android Auto

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post #2 of 17 Old 01-21-2019
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I have a Whiteline front sway, PSM Pros and Powergrid links, all highly recommended! The PSM Comps will have a more comfortable ride though due to the progressive springs, the Pros have linear springs. And the Powergrid links are one of the best options because they can be adjusted on the car to really dial out all of the static load. You just may not be able to use the stiffest setting on the Whitelines if they make contact with the control arms, just something to keep in mind, you'll have to test it on your particular setup.
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Thank you for the insight. Am I correct that the Powergrid 12M-130 for the Toyota Yaris are still the recommended model# for GC?

I don't track or race, so the comfortable ride of the Comps would be preferred (not to mention saving some money).

If you're willing to entertain a follow-up question:

My understanding is that it is best to install the sway bar on stands/lift, then put the car onto its wheels and connect the endlinks to the swaybar with the suspension loaded and at rest. Is this correct?

2013 Grand Touring 3.8: R2C SRI | ISR Single Exit | Manifold Riser | TROS Potent Boster 2 | Engine Leash | Saikou Michi | Klutch KM20 | Whiteline Sways | Parts Shop MAX Competition | Moog & Powergrid Links | Brembo Swap | Android Auto
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No, you can assemble it all while the car is off the ground but to adjust the Powergrid links (or any endlink that allows you to adjust while on the car) the car has to be on the ground or on ramps so the weight of it is on the suspension, you can also do this with someone sitting in the driver's seat. You then adjust the length of the endlinks until you feel all of the resistance leave them, usually the best way is to set them at max length and then shorten them until they are neutral.
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So...

A) Hook everything up in the air.
B) Bring the car down.
C) Put someone about my weight in the driver's seat.
D) With the nuts loose, spin the shaft of the endlink until I'm not feeling resistance in either direction.
E) Ensure sway bar ends are parallel to the ground, tighten lock nuts.

Done?

//EDIT: One more question. Do I reduce ride height by adjusting the spring seat/preload, or the shock body depth into the lower bracket? I've watched/read a dozen sources, and none of them really agree.

2013 Grand Touring 3.8: R2C SRI | ISR Single Exit | Manifold Riser | TROS Potent Boster 2 | Engine Leash | Saikou Michi | Klutch KM20 | Whiteline Sways | Parts Shop MAX Competition | Moog & Powergrid Links | Brembo Swap | Android Auto

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post #6 of 17 Old 01-22-2019
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Your E is incorrect, you need to tighten the locking nuts on the endlinks making sure the ball joints on the link are clocked correctly to the coilover bracket and the sway bar. You can't effect how the sway bar itself is pointing.

For the ride height you set the lower spring perch collar so there is no preload on the spring, snug to the spring but don't compress it at all, then secure the perch with the locking collar. You then use the collar wrenches to spin the entire shock body to adjust height, so yes the shock will move up or down inside the lower strut bracket. If the collars spin they aren't locked, smack the little one with a hammer until they can't spin on their own.

Also, before putting the coilovers on the car, take them apart and apply anti seize to the collars and the lower strut assemblies. You will be glad you did when you have to adjust or service them in a couple of years.
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I emailed PBM, and they were insistent I use OEM endlinks (below). Aside from what we discussed, are there any specific steps I might take to avoid the damage they described? I'm terrified I'm going to install this wrong and hose $1500 in gear.

Quote:
If you use aftermarket end links, you are likely to rip off the brackets. Aftermarket end links are usually too think and interfere with the brackets when you turn. Or the aftermarket ball joints dont have enough articulation and therefore bind then turning and damage the mount on the coilovers. I even see that happen on other coilover brands with steel mounts. So please dont use aftermarket links. You can use OEM links and just rotate the bar top or down slightly so they reach the brackets if needed.

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post #8 of 17 Old 01-22-2019
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a stiffer front sway bar will make it want to understeer more.
reason is, when the car leans in a corner, it will want to lift the inside front wheel more, losing traction more on that wheel
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Final sanity check before I hit buy.

1. These PBM coilovers.
2. This Whiteline front sway bar.
3. These Powergrid end links.
4. These lateral locks?

I want my 2013 GC to be a bit dartier in DD. Are these components safe, correct, and a good idea?

Bonus round:
Anyone tried this kit? Would be nice to get front and rear in one box. Worried about breaking those coilover tabs off, though...

//EDIT: @AKGC thank you for your wisdom here, and in all the other threads I've been reading.

2013 Grand Touring 3.8: R2C SRI | ISR Single Exit | Manifold Riser | TROS Potent Boster 2 | Engine Leash | Saikou Michi | Klutch KM20 | Whiteline Sways | Parts Shop MAX Competition | Moog & Powergrid Links | Brembo Swap | Android Auto

Last edited by Thraxbert; 01-22-2019 at 10:20 PM.
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post #10 of 17 Old 01-26-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraxbert View Post
Final sanity check before I hit buy.

1. These PBM coilovers.
2. This Whiteline front sway bar.
3. These Powergrid end links.
4. These lateral locks?

I want my 2013 GC to be a bit dartier in DD. Are these components safe, correct, and a good idea?

Bonus round:
Anyone tried this kit? Would be nice to get front and rear in one box. Worried about breaking those coilover tabs off, though...

//EDIT: @AKGC thank you for your wisdom here, and in all the other threads I've been reading.
If you're buying the sway bars new they will come with the locks, mine did.

You can get the kit if you want but what AKGC said is incorrect, some people keep repeating that even though it's not true for our cars, most other rear wheel drive cars yes, the explanation is here. This has been confirmed by multiple people, including myself who had a Whiteline rear sway and eventually took it off because I was sick of my rear end stepping out all of the time, handled like ****, I now have a stock rear and Whiteline front. If you want more sideways goes with a stiffer rear bar, if you want better handling go stiffer front. This discussion comes up again from time to time, see one of my older replies to it here. Just stick to your original list.

As for PSM's info on aftermarket links, they told me the same thing after I broke a mount (they sent me a new one at no cost) and while I get what they're saying I don't think it was the Powergrids to blame, I think it was a defective mount in my case. Endlinks like Moogs are so stiff and so big I can see them easily breaking mounts, but the Powergrids are not very beefy and the ball joints are compact and I can verify that they do not contact the coilover brackets at full lock. Plus because you adjust out static load you're eliminating some of that extra stress that something like Moogs can't. It's just really important to get the ball joints squared up when you tighten the locking nuts so you don't get them hitting the bracket when turning.

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Okay. Powergrids, 30mm front + locks, PSM Comps, and stock rear it is. Done and ordered! Thanks so much!

2013 Grand Touring 3.8: R2C SRI | ISR Single Exit | Manifold Riser | TROS Potent Boster 2 | Engine Leash | Saikou Michi | Klutch KM20 | Whiteline Sways | Parts Shop MAX Competition | Moog & Powergrid Links | Brembo Swap | Android Auto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inertiamonster View Post
If you're buying the sway bars new they will come with the locks, mine did.

You can get the kit if you want but what AKGC said is incorrect, some people keep repeating that even though it's not true for our cars, most other rear wheel drive cars yes, the explanation is here. This has been confirmed by multiple people, including myself who had a Whiteline rear sway and eventually took it off because I was sick of my rear end stepping out all of the time, handled like ****, I now have a stock rear and Whiteline front. If you want more sideways goes with a stiffer rear bar, if you want better handling go stiffer front. This discussion comes up again from time to time, see one of my older replies to it here. Just stick to your original list.

As for PSM's info on aftermarket links, they told me the same thing after I broke a mount (they sent me a new one at no cost) and while I get what they're saying I don't think it was the Powergrids to blame, I think it was a defective mount in my case. Endlinks like Moogs are so stiff and so big I can see them easily breaking mounts, but the Powergrids are not very beefy and the ball joints are compact and I can verify that they do not contact the coilover brackets at full lock. Plus because you adjust out static load you're eliminating some of that extra stress that something like Moogs can't. It's just really important to get the ball joints squared up when you tighten the locking nuts so you don't get them hitting the bracket when turning.
Of course it's going to run like ****. The BK2 came with thinner sway bars.
You went too stiff on the rear without changing out the front. It's ratios

I've been driving with my BK1 base/premo front sway bar, and BK1 r-spec/track rear bar for about 8 years and haven't had any issues and drives more neutral in mid corner.
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Since you didn't read the posts I linked to here are all of the setups I tested:

1. Stock
2. Whiteline front and rear with rear set to stiff
3. Whiteline front and rear with upgraded endlinks rear set to stiff
4. Whiteline front and rear with upgraded endlinks both set to soft
5. Whiteline front and rear with upgraded endlinks front set to stiff
6. Whiteline front and stock rear with upgraded endlinks front set to stiff

I started tinkering with the front and rear both upgraded, the problem is that the stock rear bars are plenty stiff (with the R-Spec bars arguably being too stiff) and the front stock bars are not nearly stiff enough. Your argument in your first post was just upgrade the rear bar and don't mess with the front which is not accurate as on this platform anything stiffer in the rear is adding oversteer not reducing understeer, he has the thinner rear base bar so if anything he's better off than I am. I'm glad you're happy with your setup as it seems to suit your driving style but the age old wisdom of just going stiffer in the rear for a RWD car does not apply to our cars, again you can refer to the threads I linked to for the technical explanations as to why this is. For me and many others the car did not handle more neutral until we fixed the front suspension, not the rear.

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Update:

1. PowerGrid endlinks acquired. Man, they're so nice! Had a good phone call with Chip at Powergrid, too. Really swell guy.
2. Front bar + locks ordered.
3. And for shits, I bought the rear bar with locks just to see if I like it or not. Worst case, I just sell it and get most of my cash back. Wanted to see what all the fuss was about!
4. Anyone have rear endlink recommendations?
5. PBM Comps being ordered mid-Feb.

Thanks for all the help so far!

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I would have sold you my rear Whiteline bar.

Get the Moog rear links, there's no way any sway bar can break those things.
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Yeah, I'd read about the Moogs. Guess I'll just have to see if they're too much stress for the mounting tabs on the PBM brackets. Still pretty nervous about that.

I get the rear bar at a crazy deal on eBay, but I definitely appreciate the offer.

2013 Grand Touring 3.8: R2C SRI | ISR Single Exit | Manifold Riser | TROS Potent Boster 2 | Engine Leash | Saikou Michi | Klutch KM20 | Whiteline Sways | Parts Shop MAX Competition | Moog & Powergrid Links | Brembo Swap | Android Auto
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The rear sway bar doesn't connect to the coilovers, it connects to a box steel bracket on the control arm, you won't break that thing either. I've had rear Moog links installed for years with no issues.

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