Hyundai Genesis Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The chain rattle is getting much worse over the last few months. As I'd like to keep my car for a few more years I thought I would be proactive in this repair. Purchased new in 2010 it has 142K miles.

I live in Raleigh, NC and am looking for a shop that has (successful) experience with this job on this car. I've worked with Creech Import before and they are fine. They quoted me a price of 2,200 using a mix of OEM/off-brand. I have quotes from two other shops - 1,850 - 2,800 same OEM/off-brand mix. Southern States Hyundai was much more expensive.

Any help and advice is appreciated.

Haigmeister
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
Harvey, I'm not far from you being over in High Point. Our 2010 3.8 also has a bad TC rattle on a cold start. What did you ever do about your TC rattle?

Since this is a thread about the 2010 3.8 timing chain, let me post my concern here. We have a 2010 with just over 129k miles. On a cold start up, the timing chain rattles... and has gotten progressively worse where it will rattle for a couple seconds after start up. I don't notice it when the engine is warm. But that cold start rattle is getting to the point where I think it's time to deal with it.

So I called my local indie shop and got an estimate for the job... about $2500. Yikes. Since we also have the famous 5th gear scrape, I thought maybe we should change out the trans gear lube and see if there's much metal debris indicating a possible tranny rebuild too. During the lube change, no abnormal metal was noted, so I thought we would go ahead with the timing chain repair (and assorted components).

When the shop called to order all the parts, we found out that Hyundai had updated the parts and they would not bolt onto the stock camshaft... and new camshafts and assorted parts were now needed in addition to the timing chain. So now the bill is approaching $4000 for all this.

We backed off the repair and are meditating on our choices... to include selling the GenCoupe and moving to another vehicle.

This is my son's car and he's getting ready to head away to school to start his junior year in college and I'm not excited about the possibility of the worn chain guides/whatever letting loose and stranding him as well as trashing the engine.

What have you guys seen in regards to that timing chain rattle and the potential for trashing the engine? Should we just let it go to failure? (I'm generally not inclined that way, but the interior is in great shape and the engine is otherwise in good shape). The only other issue is the trunk water leak I have NOT been able to solve.

So with the timing chain rattle, the 5th gear scrape, and the trunk leak.... I'm sorta not happy about putting a bunch of money in this car which is still gonna leave the last 2 items unsolved.
 

·
I'd rather do it myself
Joined
·
18,782 Posts
Have you tried a different trans fluid? I had great luck with AC Delco syncromesh and Ceratec additive. And if the leak is the tail lights some black tape will fix that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,363 Posts
Should have looked at the owners manual before buying the car.

IIRC, is says to have major service done at 100,000 miles, such as the timing chain.

$2500 for a timing chain job, and then another $1500 for their mistake? Yikes. Doesn't sound right to me.
$2500 is on the high side of a timing chain job, but not unheard of (depending)

All the 3.8 hyundai/genesis/kia Tau engines, use pretty much the same timing chain AFAIK. So they either, ordered parts for a completely different engine, or they are trying to drain you.
I would have asked to be shown how it doesn't fit.

As for the transmissions, try bleeding the clutch. With almost 150k miles on it, if bleeding it doesn't fit it, then likely the throwout bearing/clutch slave will need to be replaced (They are 1 part)
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
Have you tried a different trans fluid? I had great luck with AC Delco syncromesh and Ceratec additive. And if the leak is the tail lights some black tape will fix that.
I've been dealing with this leak for about 3 years. I fixed the initial leak around the left rear tail light. But the leak I haven't been able to track down is coming from overhead in the trunk. I've posted about it (with pics) several places here. I've even had the rear glass pulled to look for issues (none noted by the shop that pulled the glass).

Hmm. Just had the trans fluid changed. If we keep it, I'll have to consider that synchromesh and Ceratec.
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
Should have looked at the owners manual before buying the car.

IIRC, is says to have major service done at 100,000 miles, such as the timing chain.

$2500 for a timing chain job, and then another $1500 for their mistake? Yikes. Doesn't sound right to me.
$2500 is on the high side of a timing chain job, but not unheard of (depending)

All the 3.8 hyundai/genesis/kia Tau engines, use pretty much the same timing chain AFAIK. So they either, ordered parts for a completely different engine, or they are trying to drain you.
I would have asked to be shown how it doesn't fit.

As for the transmissions, try bleeding the clutch. With almost 150k miles on it, if bleeding it doesn't fit it, then likely the throwout bearing/clutch slave will need to be replaced (They are 1 part)
Reviewing my copy of the OM, there is no mention of service for the timing chain. At least, not that I could find.

5th gear is the only gear that scrapes... which is a known issue based on what I've read here on the GenCoupe forums. So I would expect it to be a synchronizer issue.

I'll stop by the Hyundai shop and see if I can get more info on the parts change that bumps up the cost so much. The parts were never ordered and the owner is a friend of mine, so I have confidence in the info he was providing. He was on the phone to the Hyundai shop when I was there. So before the job began, I was informed about the parts issue and the additional cost attributed to part changes by Hyundai.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,363 Posts
Reviewing my copy of the OM, there is no mention of service for the timing chain. At least, not that I could find.

5th gear is the only gear that scrapes... which is a known issue based on what I've read here on the GenCoupe forums. So I would expect it to be a synchronizer issue.

I'll stop by the Hyundai shop and see if I can get more info on the parts change that bumps up the cost so much. The parts were never ordered and the owner is a friend of mine, so I have confidence in the info he was providing. He was on the phone to the Hyundai shop when I was there. So before the job began, I was informed about the parts issue and the additional cost attributed to part changes by Hyundai.
Apparently I had things jumbled up in my head. From looking at the owners manual, it's part of the valve train inspection (valve clearances) and is suppose to be inspected every 60,000 miles
Page 7-9 of the owners manual.

FYI just because a part number is different for the same part from 1 year to the other doesn't mean it will not work.
The 2.0 for example the timing chains have different part numbers between the bk1 and bk2, but are interchangeable. Only difference is the link stack order, for better wear longevity.

Transmissions on the BK1s were put together with a hammer. What I mean is, when the car first came out and people were having issues, there was a tear down done on one, and it was found that the synchros weren't aligned when assembled, basically smashing the synchros when they were bolting it together at the factory.

If the car didn't have this issue and then suddenly started having the 5th gear issue, ESPECIALLY at 142k miles on it, it's likely a worn clutch and/or throwout bearing (clutch slave)
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
IIRC, the valves on the GC use shim and buckets (going from my poor memory) and as such, aren't easily adjustable... or so I recall. I wanted the valves adjusted when we got it. But that didn't seem feasible.

Haven't had a chance to go by the Hyundai shop yet. I'll try to get more info when I can. The 5th gear synchro has been a problem for a long time for us... and based on posts here, is a long standing issue on the GC. It is what it is. And we're at 129k miles, not 142k, fwiw.
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
Typically the exhaust valves wear into the seat reducing lash... and possibly causing valves to burn. I just had the valves adjusted on my Honda Ridgeline with 120k on the clock (along with a timing belt, water pump, etc.) and was very surprised to find all valves within 0.001 of spec. I was especially shocked that the exhaust valves were good.

The cold start timing chain noise on the GenCoupe is getting a bit alarming. Not sure how bad it can get before something lets loose. But I don't see spending $4k on this car at this point. It's a shame really because it's in really nice shape. Pondering my choices right now whether to let it run to destruction or trade or sell it.
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
As an update, I talked to the local Hyundai shop about the timing chain rattle. They say that until/unless the timing chain rattle persists beyond 5 seconds after starting the engine, the rattle is considered normal.

Hmmm.

We're kinda looking for a WRX right now. Not sure of the GenCoupe's future in our fleet.

I have really enjoyed the GenCoupe. The 3.8 V6 is strong and is in great shape approaching 130k miles. No oil usage to speak of. Crankcase holds 5.5 US quarts and I put in 5 qts during a change and may add 1/2 qt over about 7000 mile OCI.

The tranny 5th gear scrape is not bad... but not fun either. The big thing is that stupid trunk water leak I cannot find! Otherwise, the GenCoupe is an amazing car for the money. It is so much more car than the Civic Si.

The WRX (with modded STI turbo) pulls about as strong as the 3.8 GenCoupe. The NA Civic Si is anemic in comparison. Not even in the same class in many ways... and hugely underwhelming. Was really happy to get back into the GenCoupe after test driving a 2015 Civic Si. The 2013 modded WRX was... eye opening. But not looking for a modded car.

Part of me wants to find a later model GenCoupe without a water leak (if such a thing exists). But the more practical side of me says find a sporty 4 door sedan... which the WRX certainly is.
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
That's BS. Rattling timing chains is not SOP......
Not sure what to think. My mechanic thought the same as you.

Funny though that there's a widespread opinion that timing chains are superior to timing belts. Seems they both wear and need replacement... and not much difference in mileage either, if the GenCoupe is a typical example.

Then again, Honda says 1 qt per thousand miles is also considered normal oil usage. I call BS on that too.
 

·
I'd rather do it myself
Joined
·
18,782 Posts
All things wear. A lot depends on the oil with chains. But if it's loose enough to be rattling it is not OK as that is not what they do normally. 129k miles I would expect wear in the chain. If the chain is really worn then maybe the sprockets are too. They will develop sharp points on them if they are.

There concern should be what happens if the chain slips?

What oil are you using?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,363 Posts
Not sure what to think. My mechanic thought the same as you.

Funny though that there's a widespread opinion that timing chains are superior to timing belts. Seems they both wear and need replacement... and not much difference in mileage either, if the GenCoupe is a typical example.

Then again, Honda says 1 qt per thousand miles is also considered normal oil usage. I call BS on that too.
Chains are better in that, when it starts to fail, you usually don't end up shoving a valve into a piston, unlike when a timing belt snaps.
Belts are better in that, they are normally easier to change, and doesn't involve taking apart a third of the engine.

Chain rattle doesn't mean the engine will grenade at any moment, it means that it will need to be changed in the near future. As long as valve timing isn't too far off, then the car is still usable.
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
All things wear. A lot depends on the oil with chains. But if it's loose enough to be rattling it is not OK as that is not what they do normally. 129k miles I would expect wear in the chain. If the chain is really worn then maybe the sprockets are too. They will develop sharp points on them if they are.

There concern should be what happens if the chain slips?

What oil are you using?
Mobil 1 5w-20 EP. Hyundai oil filters.

The service guy said something about the tensioner related to oil pressure... and as the oil pressure bleeds off, creates some slack causing the noise... if I understood him correctly. I dunno.

Got a 2016 WRX we're going to check out in a few hours. Starting to think the GenCoupe's time with us is limited.
 

·
2010 GC 3.8 Track 6MT
Joined
·
140 Posts
Chains are better in that, when it starts to fail, you usually don't end up shoving a valve into a piston, unlike when a timing belt snaps.
Belts are better in that, they are normally easier to change, and doesn't involve taking apart a third of the engine.

Chain rattle doesn't mean the engine will grenade at any moment, it means that it will need to be changed in the near future. As long as valve timing isn't too far off, then the car is still usable.
My mechanic thinks it will throw a code... or refuse to start at some point if the chain gets too slack.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,363 Posts
My mechanic thinks it will throw a code... or refuse to start at some point if the chain gets too slack.
Nope, the cam sensors aren't that sensitive.
If you pop off the valve cover and look at the rear of the cams, there is a part the cam sensors will get it's signal from. It's not toothed.

Even if you disconnect the cam sensors, it will still start, but will flag a code.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top