[rschiela]

Hi,
I searched the threads and found something similar for the 2013 8AT, but not quite the same.

I have a 2010 3.8 Track 6AT. At the track, I've noticed that sometimes at WOT, it shifts near redline (about 6400rpm), but other times, it shifts at about 5000rpm. I also have an OBDII reader, and confirm that's the rpm it is at, so it isn't due to a significant tach lag. It happens at multiple gear shifts, 2-3, 3-4, even 4-5. And it isn't just one particular turn, so it isn't a weird set of physics.

I drive with TC off, so it isn't that kicking in (at least not transparently). It doesn't feel like a lag, bad shift, TC, or fuel cutoff. It just shifts early--way early.

Since this is a 2010 6AT, there are no modes (again, not user enabled). So, it isn't something like sometimes I'm in sport, and sometimes I'm in standard.

I have no dummy lights on or anything suggesting any problems.

Thanks.

 

[AKGC]

are in dummy shift mode when this happens?

 

[rschiela]

Oh, yeah sorry.
By dummy shift mode, I'm assuming you are referring to paddle shifting (or not paddle shifting).

I'm using paddle shifters.

Because it is shifting so early, it doesn't really matter if I intend to let it auto up-shift, or I plan to use the paddle to up-shift. But, generally, I let it do the auto up-shifting, and use the paddles to control the downshifting.

 

[Red Raspberry]

Did you try clearing the memory with a battery disconnect?

 

[rschiela]

I have not.

I'm assuming just detach the cables for a little while?

What leads you to think that would help? What memory does it clear?

 

[Red Raspberry]

I have not.

I'm assuming just detach the cables for a little while?

What leads you to think that would help? What memory does it clear?

I assume the TCU will store memory on load and rpm for shift points.

Easiest way is to disconnect the ECU and TCU with the quick disconnects. The battery you can leave alone.

 

[rschiela]

I plan to be at the track on Wednesday. Depending on other responses, I'll try this if I have any issues, and confirm back. Thanks for the tip.

 

[AKGC]

maybe ATF levels?

 

[rschiela]

I think the issue is the transmission is too hot. I think it is going into a tranny limp mode. I stumbled on a couple threads about tranny coolers that describe it. Shifting consistently at something below redline. I've read some at 3500, 4000, I'm at 5000. Maybe there's different degrees.

I've had a real limp mode when the engine was not happy and really cut down all power. This is something different. But, apparently a lot of people experience it. I just had to search for the solution to find it. Searching for the early shifting didn't help.

So, it sounds like I have an upgraded tranny cooler in my future. Hopefully this thread helps someone in the future connect the dots.

Thanks for your responses and suggestions.

 

[Red Raspberry]

That would make sense as far as some sort of programming for protection of the trans. And the hotter it is the lower the shift point I presume? Extra AT cooling is pretty easy to do.

 

[AKGC]

Thats some conservative temp protection parameters, because the main transcooler is built into the radiator.
Not sure if the 3.8 has an additional transcooler like the 2.0

I would expect the engine to be over heating way before the transmission.

 

[rschiela]

I appreciate both of your responses. After reading through a bunch of other threads, I wonder if you are both the same person that likes to "discuss things" with himself (or herself) .

That would make sense as far as some sort of programming for protection of the trans. And the hotter it is the lower the shift point I presume? Extra AT cooling is pretty easy to do.

Yeah, I've been reading a lot about it. I guess one thought I have is that it looks like one person put a b&m supercooler in the same spot as the mishimoto oil cooler likes to go. If I do one, I might as well do the other too, I guess. So, I'm not sure where I'll put both. Gotta figure that out if I go with mishimoto. Looks like they are both straightforward.

Thats some conservative temp protection parameters, because the main transcooler is built into the radiator.
Not sure if the 3.8 has an additional transcooler like the 2.0

I would expect the engine to be over heating way before the transmission.

Yeah, I almost think my thermometer is broken, but it functions exactly as expected from cold to a little under half. I don't have any temp sensors for oil or ATF directly at this point. When it's really hot out (over 90F) and I'm going, I can get it ever so slightly over 50%. But, then it just hits a ceiling. And my ODB2 port says the max water temp is 226 (past Wednesday, at about 85F). Then it just stays there between 220 and 226. I assume that's the fan doing extra work to keep it kind of constant. Then, as soon I start cool down lap, it starts coming down almost linearly to under 200. Then I park and shut off OBD2.

 

[rschiela]

Hmm. Maybe that's too hot.

 

[AKGC]

I appreciate both of your responses. After reading through a bunch of other threads, I wonder if you are both the same person that likes to "discuss things" with himself (or herself) .



Yeah, I've been reading a lot about it. I guess one thought I have is that it looks like one person put a b&m supercooler in the same spot as the mishimoto oil cooler likes to go. If I do one, I might as well do the other too, I guess. So, I'm not sure where I'll put both. Gotta figure that out if I go with mishimoto. Looks like they are both straightforward.



Yeah, I almost think my thermometer is broken, but it functions exactly as expected from cold to a little under half. I don't have any temp sensors for oil or ATF directly at this point. When it's really hot out (over 90F) and I'm going, I can get it ever so slightly over 50%. But, then it just hits a ceiling. And my ODB2 port says the max water temp is 226 (past Wednesday, at about 85F). Then it just stays there between 220 and 226. I assume that's the fan doing extra work to keep it kind of constant. Then, as soon I start cool down lap, it starts coming down almost linearly to under 200. Then I park and shut off OBD2.

possibly not enough coolant?
with the boiling point of water at sea level being 212*f, with coolant added it will raise it a few degrees. The radiator cap keeping about 12~16 psi in the system it will raise it to about 250*f, so it shouldn't over heat and steam off.

if you're running the car hard for long stretches, I can see it happening. I was under the impression on the initial post that this was happening while daily driving.

 

[rschiela]

Interesting. What's the effective range of the engine/water temp gauge on the dash supposed to be?

Maybe I don't have a tranny problem (though I probably do as well). Maybe the engine is telling the tranny to shift early because the water temperature is so hot, though the gauge isn't telling me that.

If the engine is heat soaked, and the water temp is that high, then I'm guessing oil and tranny coolers won't help much, because it's already heat soaked? I guess I have to research the rad threads as well. Stacking coolers in front of the rad is going to make that less efficient. I'm not sure what the tradeoff is.

This is a stock engine, other than K&N air filter. So, no turbo or super on top to make things do extra duty.

Just like someone else said in a different thread, ignorance is bliss. I just started looking at data this year, though I've been tracking for years. Maybe I've always had a coolant problem and didn't realize it, because the gauge never goes above half-way.

Knock on wood, I've never had an engine or tranny problem.

 

[rschiela]

if you're running the car hard for long stretches, I can see it happening. I was under the impression on the initial post that this was happening while daily driving.

Sorry for the confusion.

...
I have a 2010 3.8 Track 6AT. At the track, I've noticed that sometimes at WOT ...

 

[AKGC]

Interesting. What's the effective range of the engine/water temp gauge on the dash supposed to be?

Maybe I don't have a tranny problem (though I probably do as well). Maybe the engine is telling the tranny to shift early because the water temperature is so hot, though the gauge isn't telling me that.

If the engine is heat soaked, and the water temp is that high, then I'm guessing oil and tranny coolers won't help much, because it's already heat soaked? I guess I have to research the rad threads as well. Stacking coolers in front of the rad is going to make that less efficient. I'm not sure what the tradeoff is.

This is a stock engine, other than K&N air filter. So, no turbo or super on top to make things do extra duty.

Just like someone else said in a different thread, ignorance is bliss. I just started looking at data this year, though I've been tracking for years. Maybe I've always had a coolant problem and didn't realize it, because the gauge never goes above half-way.

Knock on wood, I've never had an engine or tranny problem.

The stock gauge is basic, it's not accurate. It's close enough, but not accurate.

Maybe you have junk in front of the radiator/condenser.


In a round about way, the tranny could be overheating.

 

[rschiela]

Red,
I found this post of yours on a different thread:
[°F(°C)]
131(55)
Gauge angle (°)
-45

[°F(°C)]
160(71)~230(110)
Gauge angle (°)
-70 ± 25


[°F(°C)]
257(125)
Gauge angle (°)
+35

Can you explain what it means?
In particular, I don't understand the middle numbers. Shouldn't they say: 131(55)~257(125) ; -5 +/- 40.
Then the middle numbers of the gauge angle and value would match the first and third sets, no?

Regardless, that still suggests that half-way mark (0 angle) would be about 200 degrees. So, though 225 shouldn't be red, it should still be to the right of straight up, by a couple of ticks to my estimation.

 

[Red Raspberry]

Red,
I found this post of yours on a different thread:
[°F(°C)]
131(55)
Gauge angle (°)
-45

[°F(°C)]
160(71)~230(110)
Gauge angle (°)
-70 ± 25


[°F(°C)]
257(125)
Gauge angle (°)
+35

Can you explain what it means?
In particular, I don't understand the middle numbers. Shouldn't they say: 131(55)~257(125) ; -5 +/- 40.
Then the middle numbers of the gauge angle and value would match the first and third sets, no?

Regardless, that still suggests that half-way mark (0 angle) would be about 200 degrees. So, though 225 shouldn't be red, it should still be to the right of straight up, by a couple of ticks to my estimation.

I'm guessing that is from the Hyundai manual or some other poster's actual readings. I would not put a lot of faith in the accuracy of the OE gauges.

 

[rschiela]

Ok. Checked my oil today. Nice tea color. About 3/4 quart low (a little above the L on the dipstick), so I need to top it off. But I don't think that would cause it to overheat much more than usual.

Also checked my coolant. My records show that I had the dealership change the coolant a few months ago, in May. So, it should all be clean. And the overflow tank is sitting a little bit below F with the engine cool. I'll have to pay attention to it as I put it through cycles.

I checked the OBD2. It looks like I can't get oil or ATF temp, only water temp, through my ODB2 reader. I watched the water temp just sitting parked as the engine warmed. When it hit about 160deg, the meter was just over the third tick above bottom (so, about 1 tick shy of straight up, midway). The movement was as I would expect. Each time the ODB2 raised a couple degrees, I could see a noticeable movement in the meter, from about 140 - 160. Then, it didn't move again. It went from 160 - 190 (with a little continuous parked throttle), and the needle didn't move at all.

Obviously the sender is working, because the ODB2 knows it's hot. But, the meter stops moving once it hits that level. I know this might be a red herring with regards to my shifting issue. But, it explains why I was none the wiser. Here I am glad I have NA when I see all the hoods up between sessions, only to realize I probably should have lifted my hood too.

So, maybe it isn't the ATF that's too hot. Maybe it is just the engine and water temp.

Does anyone know if the computer does measure oil and ATF and try to protect it? Or is it just going by the water temp?

Rather than trying to cool ATF, maybe I just need to focus on general cooling. That said, I'm guessing that an oil cooler + ATF cooler would likely help both. I've read enough stories on here to think that if one is a problem, the other isn't far behind.