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A) no, while opinion regardless, the Mustang interior and options smokes the GC... hands down, if you are arguing this go get your head checked. Camaro and Challenger, meh... they are at least built better.
B) Mustang 300 hp V6 starts at $22k? 410 hp V8 ~$30kish... obviously more for accesories and whatnot, but however you slice it the Mustang would be the better deal if you want the HP. Not to mention the HUGE Mustang aftermarket.
C) I like Hyundai, but try selling your car without losing your ass... Hyundai isn't known for sport(ish) cars.
D) Again, get your head examined if you think the 370Z interior is on par with the GC... The materials are better than the GC (Suede trim, various color leathers that are designed for the car unlike GC brown leather), and I've heard alot less complaints about stuff rattling loose and whatnot. Not having backseat could be a drawback, but could be a positive... if you're gonna use that argument, the functionality of a WRX hatch or speed3 wins over the GC anyways.
E) Of course they're different cars, that doesn't mean they aren't competitors.

I'm gonna have to take a closer look at the BRZ/FRS now... I initially ruled them out for being a 1st year platform.

Yeah thats what I figured, you obviously have a tremendous bias against Hyundai for some reason. You actually believe that the Mustang's interior is better than the GCs and that Challengers and Camaros are built better than the GC. There is no point in discussing this with someone whose mentality is still stuck in the 90s.

I compared two coupes (370/GC) and your bringing in hatchbacks into the discussion why not throw in the JEEP STR8 in there as well....wow.
 

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#1, if you're pricing a car by dollars for HP (which is dumb in the first place)... I already said the Mustang was better BY FAR. Retarded argument.

#2 8 speed transmission will be far better than the 2.0 5 speed, about equal to the old ZF 6 speed, slightly better mileage. Meh. The old 2.0 5 speed had no business being in this car in the first place.

#3 they haven't even released pricing on the BRZ
1. No, actually I said, "Looking at just the engine" and i immediately followed up by mentioning the additional improvements that went into that extra $1,800....this was meant to put emphasis on the fact that the Genesis is better value in terms of power AND technology/features even with the price bump.

2. Agreed! The 8-speed is a racing transmission with torque lock-up in manual mode. If it's good enough for the 5.0 Genesis R-spec Sedan, I'm sure it's more than good enough for the 2.0T.

3. True, but Subaru has unofficially blurbed the fact that it will be a $24K car. Read this article: 2013 Subaru BRZ Price Starts around $24,000 - And We Have the Detailed Specs! - WOT on Motor Trend
 

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Yeah thats what I figured, you obviously have a tremendous bias against Hyundai for some reason. You actually believe that the Mustang's interior is better than the GCs and that Challengers and Camaros are built better than the GC. There is no point in discussing this with someone whose mentality is still stuck in the 90s.

I compared two coupes (370/GC) and your bringing in hatchbacks into the discussion why not throw in the JEEP STR8 in there as well....wow.
Yes, I have a tremendous bias against Hyundai... you sure know me well.

Factually speaking, the interior of the GC has basically 3 trims.... little (base)... less (R-spec)... and almost everything (Prem/GT/Track)... There is no getting around that. If I want a power driver seat in a manual, I would have to get the 3.8 Track. That's not an issue for everyone, but limited flexibility with packages is an issue for some. Most of the interior is hard plastic which rattles loose and scuffs, there are issues with the dash warping/sagging in the heat among other issues. At best, the GC fit and finish is "Okay"...

The Mustang's interior is just better, both the options and quality of fitment. I think it looks better too. Yeah, alot of it is still hard plastics, but at least it works.

And yeah, 3100 lb, 265 HP hatches really dont belong in the same class as 3200 lb, 275 lb 4 seat coupes. Same thing as a 5000 lb SUV, really.

1. No, actually I said, "Looking at just the engine" and i immediately followed up by mentioning the additional improvements that went into that extra $1,800....this was meant to put emphasis on the fact that the Genesis is better value in terms of power AND technology/features even with the price bump.

2. Agreed! The 8-speed is a racing transmission with torque lock-up in manual mode. If it's good enough for the 5.0 Genesis R-spec Sedan, I'm sure it's more than good enough for the 2.0T.

3. True, but Subaru has unofficially blurbed the fact that it will be a $24K car. Read this article: 2013 Subaru BRZ Price Starts around $24,000 - And We Have the Detailed Specs! - WOT on Motor Trend
If you go dollar for dollar at the improvements, yes, there very well may be justifiable "reason" for the price increase... My issue with it is that the price increase puts it dead center of other cars, which are better at the price point. The GC had a niche of being the affordable yet respectable sport car, now it's just in the middle of the pack, both performance and price.

For the trannys, it's more of an indictment that the 2.0 5 speed was in the car in the first place, considering the 3.8 6 speed was FAR better already (and available at launch), yet they never bothered to put it in the 2.0. The 5 speed couldn't hold power and got shitty mileage to boot.
 

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Yes, I have a tremendous bias against Hyundai... you sure know me well.

Factually speaking, the interior of the GC has basically 3 trims.... little (base)... less (R-spec)... and almost everything (Prem/GT/Track)... There is no getting around that. If I want a power driver seat in a manual, I would have to get the 3.8 Track. That's not an issue for everyone, but limited flexibility with packages is an issue for some. Most of the interior is hard plastic which rattles loose and scuffs, there are issues with the dash warping/sagging in the heat among other issues. At best, the GC fit and finish is "Okay"...

The Mustang's interior is just better, both the options and quality of fitment. I think it looks better too. Yeah, alot of it is still hard plastics, but at least it works.

And yeah, 3100 lb, 265 HP hatches really dont belong in the same class as 3200 lb, 275 lb 4 seat coupes. Same thing as a 5000 lb SUV, really.


If you go dollar for dollar at the improvements, yes, there very well may be justifiable "reason" for the price increase... My issue with it is that the price increase puts it dead center of other cars, which are better at the price point. The GC had a niche of being the affordable yet respectable sport car, now it's just in the middle of the pack, both performance and price.

For the trannys, it's more of an indictment that the 2.0 5 speed was in the car in the first place, considering the 3.8 6 speed was FAR better already (and available at launch), yet they never bothered to put it in the 2.0. The 5 speed couldn't hold power and got shitty mileage to boot.

well said. This is the only problem actually. It puts its price with other better buys.... now I think I will drop the 3.8Track for a Merc C350.... Sorry Hyundai, looks like I join the wrong club. The 2012 Track I could get for $28900 walkout... a 2013 is $33000 + fees and crap..... wtff
 

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^ A Merc C350? Brand new that costs 41K + "fees and crap". Wish I had that kind of money for my car budget.

I was thinking about a 2.0t premium. Are there any cars out there that make more sense then the premium with these new 2013 prices?
 

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At 32-33k, I think there are better cars out there unless this new GC really drives much nicer than the old ones.

Oh, and Hyundai is f*cking stupid for not giving the R spec cruise control.

Okay. You and a bunch of other guys have chimed into this thread to make this statement without showing jack squat for proof on what models and configurations are supposedly better. Go ahead and name these "better cars" that are priced similar to the 3.8 Track with similar performance options and similar tech/luxury options. Go ahead and name them....don't forget to name the trim level/options and price. I'll wait.
 

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Okay. You and a bunch of other guys have chimed into this thread to make this statement without showing jack squat for proof on what models and configurations are supposedly better. Go ahead and name these "better cars" that are priced similar to the 3.8 Track with similar performance options and similar tech/luxury options. Go ahead and name them....don't forget to name the trim level/options and price. I'll wait.
Evo X GSR
Subaru STI

Pretty sure both would beat the Gen Coupe on the track... Maybe not as luxurious though...
 

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Okay. You and a bunch of other guys have chimed into this thread to make this statement without showing jack squat for proof on what models and configurations are supposedly better. Go ahead and name these "better cars" that are priced similar to the 3.8 Track with similar performance options and similar tech/luxury options. Go ahead and name them....don't forget to name the trim level/options and price. I'll wait.
Go check the other thread, alot of posts were transfered there (I'm sure this will too). The Mazdaspeed3 will be better & cheaper than the base 2.0 (IMO). WRX too if you want AWD. The BRZ and FRS are going to be competitive because they are so light. For the 3.8, V6 & V8 Mustang or Camaro compare very favorably throughout the whole lineup. 370Z. WRX STI. Lower end of G37s. JCW Mini Coopers. Probably missed a few.

All of those cars are now in the direct price range of the GC. I think some of them are clearly better at any given price point. Main thing the GC had was it was cheaper. Go do some research. Before anyone comes crying "that's AWD/FWD/Hatchback" or w/e... They're all in the cheap sporty car class that you can drive everyday.... performance with features.

Also, I'm not saying the GC is a bad car or bad value, I just think there are better cars out there if these prices are accurate.

It's not...some people are dumb. It works out to ~$30 more a month on a typical 5-year loan. But I'm sure the resale value will go up to compensate now that you have a more attractive engine/transmission/interior. And I doubt it will impact the residual value if you were to lease it (for the same reasons!).
Resale on GCs will suck, 2012 or 2013. It's not a high demand car.

You know what's dumb though? Pricing cars on loans, especially 5+ years. Monthly payments mean jack sh*t. If you extend payments, literally everything is affordable. That just means you are paying interest on top of it.
 

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Evo X GSR
Subaru STI

Pretty sure both would beat the Gen Coupe on the track... Maybe not as luxurious though...
this is not an apt comparison. Not only do comparably equipped STI's and Evo's cost at least $6k more than the 3.8 Track, they're also AWD Turbo Saloons that are meant to be raced. They are also built off econobox platforms and in many ways still feel like such. Not to mention that they also get pretty horrible gas mileage. You are comparing apples to oranges here.
 

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Go check the other thread, alot of posts were transfered there (I'm sure this will too). The Mazdaspeed3 will be better & cheaper than the base 2.0 (IMO). WRX too if you want AWD. The BRZ and FRS are going to be competitive because they are so light. For the 3.8, V6 & V8 Mustang or Camaro compare very favorably throughout the whole lineup. 370Z. WRX STI. Lower end of G37s. JCW Mini Coopers. Probably missed a few.

All of those cars are now in the direct price range of the GC. I think some of them are clearly better at any given price point. Main thing the GC had was it was cheaper. Go do some research. Before anyone comes crying "that's AWD/FWD/Hatchback" or w/e... They're all in the cheap sporty car class that you can drive everyday.... performance with features.

Also, I'm not saying the GC is a bad car or bad value, I just think there are better cars out there if these prices are accurate.



Resale on GCs will suck, 2012 or 2013. It's not a high demand car.

You know what's dumb though? Pricing cars on loans, especially 5+ years. Monthly payments mean jack sh*t. If you extend payments, literally everything is affordable. That just means you are paying interest on top of it.
Your post is entirely misleading. These cars were ALREADY in the price range of the Gen Coupe to begin with, adding $1800 to the price should not all of of a sudden make them THAT much more attractive, especially when performance of the gen coupe has increased significantly AND the price of the competitors has gone up, too. Case in point, the base 370z msrp was under $30k when it was first released - it will be close to $33k for the 2013 model refresh. Additionally, many of the cars you mentioned simply are not comparable. You are mixing in V8s with V6s and Turbo 4, rwd with awd and fwd, 2+2s with 2 seat coupes and 4 door sedans/hatches.

For instance, I am currently in the market for a ~$30k coupe to replace my 20 year old Nissan 300zxtt. While I love the 370z, one with the sports package costs about $7k more than a comparably equipped 3.8 Track. While I believe that the 370z is an overall better car than the 3.8 Track, it is definitely not $7k better, especially with the upgrades that the 2013 Gen coupe comes with. With a g37, you're looking at a $10k difference. I wouldn't even include the STI because I already have a Turbo hatch as my daily driver (GTI), but even then it costs $6K more. V8 mustangs and Camaros are probably the closest comparisons here because of their price, drivetrain, and 2+2 form factor. The 3.8 Track would probably be significantly slower, but I imagine that it would be better than both on the track.
 

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Your post is entirely misleading. These cars were ALREADY in the price range of the Gen Coupe to begin with, adding $1800 to the price should not all of of a sudden make them THAT much more attractive, especially when performance of the gen coupe has increased significantly AND the price of the competitors has gone up, too. Case in point, the base 370z msrp was under $30k when it was first released - it will be close to $33k for the 2013 model refresh. Additionally, many of the cars you mentioned simply are not comparable. You are mixing in V8s with V6s and Turbo 4, rwd with awd and fwd, 2+2s with 2 seat coupes and 4 door sedans/hatches.

For instance, I am currently in the market for a ~$30k coupe to replace my 20 year old Nissan 300zxtt. While I love the 370z, one with the sports package costs about $7k more than a comparably equipped 3.8 Track. While I believe that the 370z is an overall better car than the 3.8 Track, it is definitely not $7k better, especially with the upgrades that the 2013 Gen coupe comes with. With a g37, you're looking at a $10k difference. I wouldn't even include the STI because I already have a Turbo hatch as my daily driver (GTI), but even then it costs $6K more. V8 mustangs and Camaros are probably the closest comparisons here because of their price, drivetrain, and 2+2 form factor. The 3.8 Track would probably be significantly slower, but I imagine that it would be better than both on the track.
The 2010-12 GC was cheaper than pretty much all those cars, now they are almost directly priced with any of those cars I listed. The reason why the GC was appealing to me before, was because it wasn't directly competing with those cars. Now it wants to put itself dead center of them, now there are better alternatives.

I was mainly comparing the 4 bangers to the 2.0 and the V6/V8s to the 3.8. The GC covers this no mans land of 4cyl & 6cyl coupes... so yeah, you might get some "odd" comparisons, but they're still similar. Like I said, sporty cars that can function as daily drivers. Some are more luxury, some are more performance. I'm just comparing the spirit/function of each car to each other.

If you're limiting your search to a coupe, then yeah, you are limited to a GC, 370Z, American muscle or maybe a BMW or something. There aren't a lot of "coupes" in general... especially when you restrict drivetrains, engines, price and all that sort of stuff. If you want the "Best RWD, 2 door, 2+2, 6 cylinder car with 17 inch rims made out of Korea" then yeah, the GC is the best.

When I was car shopping last year, the 370Z had insane discounts, like 6-7k off sticker. It's going to be like a $3k sticker difference between the 2013 3.8 M/T and 370 touring... I'm sure it's closer than that in reality.
 

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this is not an apt comparison. Not only do comparably equipped STI's and Evo's cost at least $6k more than the 3.8 Track, they're also AWD Turbo Saloons that are meant to be raced. They are also built off econobox platforms and in many ways still feel like such. Not to mention that they also get pretty horrible gas mileage. You are comparing apples to oranges here.
Most of this is just not true.
 

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Okay. You and a bunch of other guys have chimed into this thread to make this statement without showing jack squat for proof on what models and configurations are supposedly better. Go ahead and name these "better cars" that are priced similar to the 3.8 Track with similar performance options and similar tech/luxury options. Go ahead and name them....don't forget to name the trim level/options and price. I'll wait.
There are a couple of problems though when you want to break down into fine detail. Not everyone cares about having all of these features that make the Genesis Coupe better in the opinions of some. Sure they might be thrown in, but would someone buy the car if it didn't have it? I'm sure plenty would. Secondly, there are other cars that are much more powerful for a similar price, even if they are stripped down in terms of luxo features. I can just as easily bust balls and say which Genesis Coupe with 400 horsepower is available for the price of a base Mustang GT. Kudos to Ford for making HID standard on both the V6 and the GT. Wish Hyundai would follow in those footsteps.

Just because someone thinks another car in that price bracket is a better fit for them doesn't mean they have any kind of ire towards Hyundai. It just means that they have a differing opinion. If I had 30 grand to drop, I can almost guarantee it'd be on a 2013 Mustang GT. If they had kept the R-Spec cost down around 25-26, it probably would have been a toss up between a BRZ/FRS or the 3.8 R-Spec.
 

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Go check the other thread, alot of posts were transfered there (I'm sure this will too). The Mazdaspeed3 will be better & cheaper than the base 2.0 (IMO). WRX too if you want AWD. The BRZ and FRS are going to be competitive because they are so light. For the 3.8, V6 & V8 Mustang or Camaro compare very favorably throughout the whole lineup. 370Z. WRX STI. Lower end of G37s. JCW Mini Coopers. Probably missed a few.

All of those cars are now in the direct price range of the GC. I think some of them are clearly better at any given price point. Main thing the GC had was it was cheaper. Go do some research. Before anyone comes crying "that's AWD/FWD/Hatchback" or w/e... They're all in the cheap sporty car class that you can drive everyday.... performance with features.

Also, I'm not saying the GC is a bad car or bad value, I just think there are better cars out there if these prices are accurate.



Resale on GCs will suck, 2012 or 2013. It's not a high demand car.

You know what's dumb though? Pricing cars on loans, especially 5+ years. Monthly payments mean jack sh*t. If you extend payments, literally everything is affordable. That just means you are paying interest on top of it.
Blah blah blah blah...I said name a car that competes directly against the 3.8 Track in terms of pricing performance and tech/luxury options and you failed by naming a bunch of cars that don't. And you failed to provide price/options as an effort to disprove my point. But I guess you can't bothered to do the research and understand this because you're too busy presuming resale value and ignoring the fact that $30/month on a 60 month loan will be a reality for 8 out 10 people who decide to finance this car. No a WRX, STI, MS3, 370Z, "lower end G37" do not compete with the 3.8 Track when similarly equipped. Some of the cars mentioned simply cannot even be equipped to compete. And yes you are a fool to throw sedans and hatches into the mix because they are in fact a different segment. Why not compare sport bikes and sporty family sedans while you are at it? I bet I can get a used M3 for $34.5K hurrrrr!
 

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There are a couple of problems though when you want to break down into fine detail. Not everyone cares about having all of these features that make the Genesis Coupe better in the opinions of some. Sure they might be thrown in, but would someone buy the car if it didn't have it? I'm sure plenty would. Secondly, there are other cars that are much more powerful for a similar price, even if they are stripped down in terms of luxo features. I can just as easily bust balls and say which Genesis Coupe with 400 horsepower is available for the price of a base Mustang GT. Kudos to Ford for making HID standard on both the V6 and the GT. Wish Hyundai would follow in those footsteps.

Just because someone thinks another car in that price bracket is a better fit for them doesn't mean they have any kind of ire towards Hyundai. It just means that they have a differing opinion. If I had 30 grand to drop, I can almost guarantee it'd be on a 2013 Mustang GT. If they had kept the R-Spec cost down around 25-26, it probably would have been a toss up between a BRZ/FRS or the 3.8 R-Spec.
So what are you proposing? That Hyundai not do exactly what they set out to do, which is develope a comparativly affordable luxury sport coupe because people like you don't want the extras or consider everything under gods green earth to be a direct competitor? No sir I think that means maybe this isn't the car for you. Go buy a base model Mustang GT if that's what suits your fancy.
 

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For crying out loud, the GC is NOT a luxury coupe. You guys need to get over that. The only people who feel that way is HYUNDAI and the buyers of the GC. The mainstream public in no way, shape or form is cross shopping HYUNDAI vs. luxury brands.

Some of you have bought one solely based on price, but not everyone bases purchases on cost. The VAST majority would never even consider the car based on its brand image. I see the GC as a RWD alternative to the Nissan Altima and Accord FWD coupes. PERIOD. If you don't want RWD, there is no reason to buy a GC other than looks.

If someone was going to give me a G37 coupe or a GC, I HIGHLY doubt the GC would be my choice. Now if I had to pay for it, that is a different case, but like I said if you are buying a luxury car you usually want a luxury brand name.
 

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The 2010-12 GC was cheaper than pretty much all those cars, now they are almost directly priced with any of those cars I listed. The reason why the GC was appealing to me before, was because it wasn't directly competing with those cars. Now it wants to put itself dead center of them, now there are better alternatives.

I was mainly comparing the 4 bangers to the 2.0 and the V6/V8s to the 3.8. The GC covers this no mans land of 4cyl & 6cyl coupes... so yeah, you might get some "odd" comparisons, but they're still similar. Like I said, sporty cars that can function as daily drivers. Some are more luxury, some are more performance. I'm just comparing the spirit/function of each car to each other.

If you're limiting your search to a coupe, then yeah, you are limited to a GC, 370Z, American muscle or maybe a BMW or something. There aren't a lot of "coupes" in general... especially when you restrict drivetrains, engines, price and all that sort of stuff. If you want the "Best RWD, 2 door, 2+2, 6 cylinder car with 17 inch rims made out of Korea" then yeah, the GC is the best.

When I was car shopping last year, the 370Z had insane discounts, like 6-7k off sticker. It's going to be like a $3k sticker difference between the 2013 3.8 M/T and 370 touring... I'm sure it's closer than that in reality.
I see your points, but I still disagree with a few of them. If i were in the market for a $30k sporty daily driver, regardless of powertrain, drivetrain, and style, then maybe I would include all those cars on your list. but i can guarantee that many people will have preferences that will make such a comparison unlikely.

In terms of performance rwd/awd coupes, there are plenty of them on the market, they just all cost considerably more, or are significantly down on power (thinking of the brz, miata here. yes, i know that the miata is a roadster). You note that cars such as the 370z are heavily discounted so the price difference is not nearly as great as it seems. But what's not to say that the Gen coupe will be discounted after a few months of release? I'm willing to bet that by the end of this year, there still will be at least a $5-6k gap between the two cars.
 

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The EVO X is not $6k more. While they are a good track car, I would not say they are made to race specifically, but they do perform well and are purpose built. They do not feel like an econobox at all. Maybe the 8 and 9's did, but the X is better, but they still have a plastic boring interior BUT Recaro seats are nice for sure. Gas mileage, while not great, it surely not poor for a performance car that has a 7200 redline. 20-22MPG is the norm with a good tune and light mods which yields about 400hp and 420ft./lbs. Having a 5 speed does hurt highway MPG.
 
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