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custom builder
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have a gt3071r twin scroll turbo and am currently tuned to 350whp at 18psi. i currently have my motor apart and am installing forged pistons, rods, oversize bearings, a new fuel pump and methanol injection which i predict after turning up the boost and running meth i can be around 500whp. my plan is to have 2 ecus, 1 with a street tune, and one for racing. ill be keeping the tune i have now as the street tune and will swap to the race tune as needed. my question is for the guys with built motors and big turbos, how much boost are you running and what power are you making? im trying to have the race tune pushing 30-35psi but would like to know if im pushing my luck instead. the car is not a daily driver so not too too worried about a blown motor but its not an event id be keen on still...
 

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That's a smallish turbo for a built engine, you can do better than that with a 35 series turbine since it's not a dally ride

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PTE 6466, built motor, 40psi+ is where life starts. haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i enjoy the rev range out of the turbo. its an oversized wheel so its not exactly a gt3071 by standard means. i considered doing a hybrid turbo but id like to see the powerband on this before i decide anything on that matter. im looking to get closer to stock turbo spool on this eventually. is the 6466 turbo what you are running? and at 40psi?
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don't you need sleeves for >30psi?
 

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i enjoy the rev range out of the turbo. its an oversized wheel so its not exactly a gt3071 by standard means. i considered doing a hybrid turbo but id like to see the powerband on this before i decide anything on that matter. im looking to get closer to stock turbo spool on this eventually. is the 6466 turbo what you are running? and at 40psi?
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[/QUOTE]

I am running a PTE6466 on 40psi on a Haltech standalone ECU.
 

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don't you need sleeves for >30psi?
i have run 30psi on a completely stock MY2014 motor on a PTE6062 GenII. i didn't have any issues but i also keep my tunes conservative. I have sleeves now and IMO i would recommend sleeves on any motor over 450lb/ft torque.
 

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i have run 30psi on a completely stock MY2014 motor on a PTE6062 GenII. i didn't have any issues but i also keep my tunes conservative. I have sleeves now and IMO i would recommend sleeves on any motor over 450lb/ft torque.
I'm sleeved, waiting for efr7163 to arrive^^ but i'm not sure i'll be pushing anything near 40psi due to bk1 AT trans, even considering i'm building it
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
don't you need sleeves for >30psi?
ive never used sleeves on any car of mine under 1000whp. ive never blown the block without sleeves. aluminum blocks are surface treated when used with boost indefinitely so theres usually little need for sleeves unless you are pushing a big big turbo with lots of boost. i know the 4g63 is an iron block and is not directly comparable to our block but my eclipse runs 65lbs on a stock block with low 8s et.
 

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Korean Asswhoopin
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The cylinders do swell at higher boost, this is the disadvantage of an aluminum block. Can't compare it to a 4g63. Without sleeves 30+ psi will not last long. I've helped build and been around plenty of high hp build gen friends and your turbo is too small on this car to make 500whp. Our head flows like crap compared to a 4g63, so even my BW EFR turbo needs to be at 28 psi too push 450 whp. Turbos on this car just don't make what they are supposed to. For example my EFR 7163 used to be on a friend's manley rod/piston built car, on 100 octane and almost 30 psi it made 440 whp on a mustang dyno and equal torque. Last year when I bought his turbo he went to EFR 7170 and 100 octane. It made 504whp on a mustang dyno, similar boost level maybe a little less. That turbo is huge and capable of much more on a different engine.
 

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Also don't forget our block is open deck, which doesn't help at all


Thumb5, i thought you are running efr7064, no?
 

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Korean Asswhoopin
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Also don't forget our block is open deck, which doesn't help at all


Thumb5, i thought you are running efr7064, no?
oops i am. BW makes absolutely no sense with the way they label the efr line.
 

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oops i am. BW makes absolutely no sense with the way they label the efr line.
it actually makes some sense after you look at their catalog, but the frame thing i also did not get from the first time:


 

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ive never used sleeves on any car of mine under 1000whp. ive never blown the block without sleeves. aluminum blocks are surface treated when used with boost indefinitely so theres usually little need for sleeves unless you are pushing a big big turbo with lots of boost. i know the 4g63 is an iron block and is not directly comparable to our block but my eclipse runs 65lbs on a stock block with low 8s et.
Our aluminum blocks are die cast aluminum with small flexible sleeve inserts from the factory, not to mention its an open deck design. once cylinder pressures starts to rise the block will actually distort and best case scenario you'll loose the sealing ability of the rings, head gasket and such from distortion of the bore. boost is irrelevant overall as its only a small part of the equation per a given size turbo to determine cylinder pressure. torque is a more accurate predictor of high cylinder pressures and stress on components. theoretically you could have a motor make 1000whp on stock sleeves as long as the torque was low and transition of torque smooth.

I have most of my experience with boosted 4cyl engines from the DSM world. would love to hear more about your stock block motor on 65psi of boost running 8's. :smile:
 

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it actually makes some sense after you look at their catalog, but the frame thing i also did not get from the first time:


The EFR turbo line up is very temping to run as they have had great success in the evo 4b11 world. the 9180 might be a good replacement for my 6466 for more power.
 

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The cylinders do swell at higher boost, this is the disadvantage of an aluminum block. Can't compare it to a 4g63. Without sleeves 30+ psi will not last long. I've helped build and been around plenty of high hp build gen friends and your turbo is too small on this car to make 500whp. Our head flows like crap compared to a 4g63, so even my BW EFR turbo needs to be at 28 psi too push 450 whp. Turbos on this car just don't make what they are supposed to. For example my EFR 7163 used to be on a friend's manley rod/piston built car, on 100 octane and almost 30 psi it made 440 whp on a mustang dyno and equal torque. Last year when I bought his turbo he went to EFR 7170 and 100 octane. It made 504whp on a mustang dyno, similar boost level maybe a little less. That turbo is huge and capable of much more on a different engine.
it's not that the g4kf cylinder head flows worse then the 4g63 cylinder head, IMO its a combination of shim and bucket cam design witch doesn't rely on a rocker arm that adds a multiplier to cam lift and the fact our exhaust valves in stock form are 2mm smaller than the 4g63 exhaust valve witch helps maintain higher exhaust gas velocity but becomes a restriction at higher horsepower levels.
46g3 guys can run the same lift cam as us but due to the multiplier effect of the rocker arm, lift provides more airflow to enter the engine during a valve event. our valve events look like a "^" and the 4g63 looks like a "O" cut horizontally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
don't you need sleeves for >30psi?
i have run 30psi on a completely stock MY2014 motor on a PTE6062 GenII. i didn't have any issues but i also keep my tunes conservative. I have sleeves now and IMO i would recommend sleeves on any motor over 450lb/ft torque.



stock block, not internals or anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
sorry. quoted the wrong person. my phone sucks...
 

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it's not that the g4kf cylinder head flows worse then the 4g63 cylinder head, IMO its a combination of shim and bucket cam design witch doesn't rely on a rocker arm that adds a multiplier to cam lift and the fact our exhaust valves in stock form are 2mm smaller than the 4g63 exhaust valve witch helps maintain higher exhaust gas velocity but becomes a restriction at higher horsepower levels.
RPM not hp.


About the whole rocker arm thing, in short, more parts a movement has to go through, more inaccuracy in movement, loss of transfer in power.

Part of the reason why they went with the a timing belt in the 4g63. timing chains sap a lot of power because of all the links and weight, but more reliable in the sense that if a timing chain starts to go, it won't ruin an engine (usually); as opposed to a timing belt snapping.

Because of this very reason koenigsegg build a solenoid/computer controlled valvetrain system.
Drive did a vid on this and koenigsegg used an existing 4 banger for testing and made some insane amount of power out of the stock short block, by replacing it with a head that they designed.

EDIT: 1.6l engine making 160hp stock, to 240hp
 

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RPM not hp.


About the whole rocker arm thing, in short, more parts a movement has to go through, more inaccuracy in movement, loss of transfer in power.

Part of the reason why they went with the a timing belt in the 4g63. timing chains sap a lot of power because of all the links and weight, but more reliable in the sense that if a timing chain starts to go, it won't ruin an engine (usually); as opposed to a timing belt snapping.

Because of this very reason koenigsegg build a solenoid/computer controlled valvetrain system.
Drive did a vid on this and koenigsegg used an existing 4 banger for testing and made some insane amount of power out of the stock short block, by replacing it with a head that they designed.

EDIT: 1.6l engine making 160hp stock, to 240hp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510
HIGH RPM on HIGH horsepower builds, RPM is part of it but saying that the amount of power has nothing to do with a restriction is ass backwards. a completely stock genesis wont see much restriction from a 1.5mm smaller exhaust valve, in fact at that power level its an advantage over the 4g63.
 
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