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Hi Everyone,

Just a disclaimer that I'm a noob and I'm about to tell you some stuff that proves it - could really use some help on this one.

Quick background: I hit 25,000 miles on my 2013 Genny 2.0T RS a few weeks ago and since I've been doing all the work myself to keep it maintained I figured I'd do the same for the 1st big checkup. I keep a log and all my receipts and ya... anyways... been following Snoopy's manual transmission thread and ordered some Mitsubishi super gear oil (enough to do a full flush), Redline diff oil (enough to do a full flush) and basically preparing for a nice Sunday once everything arrived to get it all done on one day. As I was driving home last Friday I noticed my car was stuttering a little at high RPM. It felt exactly the way a car feels when your spark plugs are missing. I knew 25,000 miles was low for spark plugs but I also know that I drive 120 miles a day to work round trip and it's hot down in SoCal and my driving style doesn't favor conserving gas - so figured - hey - might as well get some new plugs, too. I got some Autolite Iridium XLs which is all I could find in stock and figured they'd be fine until I could order some Densos.

One of the first things I did when I got my Genesis was equip it with a dual catch can solution. They both had the little plastic thingys on them that allows you to see how much oil has been collected. After 3,000 miles they hadn't even filled up a little bit and I even posted on the forums about it wondering if I had done something wrong. Based on the pictures I put up, etc. I got lots of good feedback and felt like it was good and nothing to worry about. And now in retrospect, I know that my setup was good and my car was just efficient (plus mainly all highway miles).

This is where my noobiness is going to get me flamed...

5,000 miles... 10,000 miles... those little plastic thingys that show you the levels in the catch cans - well - they start to get black from the heat, dirt, whatever. I'd look at them at each oil change and they never seemed to get much oil. Now I realize that there was lots of oil in them but it required me to clean the plastic... I know you guys know where I'm going. If you've ever wondered what happens if you let your catch cans get full and don't empty them keep reading.

For the record, in the future - I won't even rely on looking at those shitty plastic things - I will just disconnect and empty the catch cans after every few oil changes - so I'm saying this now so no one has to point that out to me ;-)

So, now I know it wasn't my plugs that day I felt the hesitation. It was the first symptom of my catch cans filling up. Just enough to cause some hesitation but not the end of the world yet. If I had figured it out that day I'd probably have been good and this post never would have happened.

BUT... I didn't know. And that Sunday, I changed the spark plugs. I thought I had made the correct diagnosis for about 50 miles because there was no hesitation that Monday on my way to work but then on my way home - it started again.

So, I went on the forums and read everything about spark plugs - and based upon my what I read I assumed I hadn't gapped them right. So I purchased a nice gap tool (not the cheap coin but a proper gap tool) and gapped the plugs to around .28 since it seemed like most people said that is what was coming from the factory. Well, of course, nothing changed. So I figured I had been a noob with the gapping procedure and damaged the plugs - so went and purchased another set and was really careful to not touch the point or put stress on the ceramic...

... and obviously, that didn't change anything either. All this time, I'm driving back and force the 120 miles to work and back with the hestitation - so I'm just driving really easy and thinking of how I need to order spark plugs from the dealership to get the exact ones for the 2013 since they are different than what has come with the Genny's in the past. Of course, we know by now that it wasn't the plugs and no plugs are going to fix my problem... and this is the part where people who know more than I ever will might share some wisdom with me.

The other day I'm half way home and the engine light comes on and I can see the boost gauge kick in when the turbo spools but there is no sound coming from the bov that I'm used to hearing. So, despite "seeing" boost there is actually no boost felt. No worries, I don't need boost - I just need to get home. As I get closer to home I can tell the car is losing power. When I finally get to my garage I turn the car off I can't even start it again - when I turn the key and try and start the ignition it just turns over and over again like it is flooded. I pop the hood and that's when I realize my mistake!

There is oil everywhere like something exploded. It took me a while to get my bearings because I was so distressed but I finally realized that nothing had actually exploded but instead oil was being expelled out the BOV all over the engine. Obviously, the catch cans had filled up and oil was making its way to the turbo via the intake. My air filter was soaked with oil and basically my whole intake was coated and sure enough, when I took the intake and airbox out I could see oil inside the turbo.

Ok, I think to myself... First things first, right? Let's clean up. I cleaned the air box that holds the filter, put in a new air filter, cleaned the intake and wiped all the oil off the engine. It was a long process - all by hand - but needed to be done. Of course, this is the second noob mistake because as soon as I started the engine oil shot out the BOV all over my engine again - this time onto my window because I had the hood open. Ok, second thing I learned. Clean up AFTER everything is working again.

So, now the car starts but it's rough rough rough and I have the engine light on. I stick in my cheapo diagnostic-to-Android thingymabobber and it says "misfire on cylinder 1"... so, I think to myself, maybe I'll stick my old original plugs back in. As I take out the spark plugs I can see they are drenched with oil and as I take them out I can see lots of blow by coming out of the engine. So then I realize, **** - all that oil in my catch cans - wonder if my oil levels have tanked - and I check my oil dip stick and it's down a quart. I can see blow by/smoke coming out of the place where the dip stick goes in - so I assume it must be blow by - which is good, right? I mean - it's not good - but it's better that it gets out because if it can't find a way out then this is a very different post - correct me if I'm wrong?

So that's where I'm at. When I changed the plugs the engine light went off but I'm still getting a diagnostic code for misfire on cylinder 1 and the car sounds horrible. I thought I might just leave it running for a while to see if the ECU needs to do some correction (I reset it several times by pulling the battery) and also revved the engine to get some boost and see if I could get oil expelled out the BOV - which it is definitely less than it was - so I think that is good but I don't know...

At this point - I'm just hoping one of you guys will realize I overlooked something obvious or know if I screwed something up so bad driving all those miles thinking I just need to gap my plugs properly - lol...

The irony in all of this is that the very purpose of why I installed the cans was to STOP OIL FROM GETTING INTO MY TURBO. Instead of putting oil in it slowly over thousands of miles I end up dumping the amount of oil that would've been there after thousands of miles in a few days. :eek:

If there is any information I can provide that I've forgotten that would help troubleshoot my problem of getting my car from a state where it is running on 3 cylinders to 4 let me know. I'm assuming the oil getting blasted out of the BOV will eventually go away. My catch cans are empty now but I'm still seeing blow by coming out the engine via the oil dip stick when I pull it out after letting the car stay on for a few minutes. Will that correct itself or is something perm damaged?

I'll stop asking questions and would be grateful for any insight and help.

Thanks to all in advance,

- Marco
 

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I am going to watch this string develop as I really can't help being a Noob to the Genesis 2.0T myself and I have 18,000 miles on my 2013.

I do note though that you are doing all your own maintenance. I have always done my own maintenance but at 69, I decided to let my dealer do all scheduled maintenance. I am also not convinced of the need or effectiveness of the catch can on this engine, although I had one on my MINI which had direct injection. But there is no way you would need new plugs at 25,000 miles and there is no problem with using a cheap gap tool...if you are careful.

My reasoning for letting my dealer do the scheduled maintenance - by the book - is that if anything goes wrong, like it has with yours, I can take it in and they will fix it. That's what the warranty is for. But I do have a competent dealer and an oil change every 3,750 miles cost about the same as doing it myself...at my dealer.
 

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If the turbo side can was full of oil it's probably because the PCV valve is not acting as a check valve letting boost pressure into the crank case.

You should be able to go 10k miles and not have much oil in the turbo side can.

And I agree about the sight tubes, they are worthless after a few 1000 miles and oil discolors them. Just take them off and plug the ports.
 

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I am wondering if was acting like when a person wayyyy overfills the crack case, the oil starts to froth and causes major problems.

Are you sure your catch can was installed right?

I hate to say this but I never have been a fan of catch cans on modern turbo cars, esp ones with stock turbos.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If the turbo side can was full of oil it's probably because the PCV valve is not acting as a check valve letting boost pressure into the crank case.
Red,

Is there a simple way to tell if the PCV valve is failing or should I just replace it to make sure? Will I need to order it special from dealership or can I get a replacement at any auto store?

Any idea on the misfiring based upon what I wrote?

- Marco
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am wondering if was acting like when a person wayyyy overfills the crack case, the oil starts to froth and causes major problems.

Are you sure your catch can was installed right?
Focal,

Do you think I should give it an oil change? I mean, obviously I just did that - but would this be a quick way to eliminate the blow by? Sorry if that sounds like a full-blown noob question...

- Marco
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Red,

I found this - will go out and try it:

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But there is another cause of blow-by. It can occur when the crankcase ventilating system is plugged up and cannot relieve internal pressures. Modern cars and light trucks are equipped with a positive crankcase ventilation system (PCV). This is a simple arrangement of hoses coupled to a check valve that directs crankcase vapor and pressures back into the intake manifold. This allows the vapors to be burned again within the engine. Many older cars (typically pre-1968) were not equipped with a PCV system; they merely exhausted crankcase vapors into the atmosphere by way of a draft tube setup. The draft tube arrangement was revised to meet emission (smog) requirements.

The check valve found within most PCV systems is a basic one-way valve used to prevent the reverse flow of air (and oil) through the system. The valve is designed to be serviced and, over time, it can become plugged with sludge and dirt. If it becomes plugged, it is impossible for the system to relieve crankcase pressure. The result is oil leaking (much like those caused by blow-by).

In order to test the operation of the PCV system, track down the hose leading from the valve cover to the base of the carburetor or fuel injection intake manifold. At some point in this line you will find the PCV valve. Fire up the engine and allow it to reach normal operating temperature. Using a set of smooth jaw pliers, pinch the rubber PCV line closed. If the PCV system is functioning properly, the engine's idle speed will drop almost 100 rpm (that's an audible drop). If the car doesn't experience an rpm, there's a good chance the PCV valve is plugged.

Over the years, a few PCV valves could be disassembled and cleaned, but for the most part the valves are throwaway items. For older cars, the PCV valve should be replaced at each tune up. Modern cars have different service intervals. Your owner's manual should provide information on when (usually mileage based) the PCV is serviced.

There’s one more external culprit (and it’s rather rare): On select cars equipped with a vacuum booster pump, excessive oil consumption can occur if the internal diaphragm is torn or ruptured. If the diaphragm is damaged, the vacuum pump can suck oil vapor from the crankcase and direct it to the intake manifold. If that occurs, it will appear as if the car has worn piston rings.

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Red,

Is there a simple way to tell if the PCV valve is failing or should I just replace it to make sure? Will I need to order it special from dealership or can I get a replacement at any auto store?

Any idea on the misfiring based upon what I wrote?

- Marco
You can take the hose off the can that comes from the PCV vlave leaving it connected to the PCV valve. Try to blow in the hose to see if there is any flow. There should not be.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
... and just found snoopy's video for replacing PCV valve here:
 

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I would get a new PCV valve from the dealer, avoid aftermarket if you can. I would change the oil to play it safe. Make sure you have clean plugs, a fouled plug can be causing the misfire, double check the gap. You might want to access the turbo and clean it up the best you can, get the oil residue.

Do you have factory air filter housing or a SRI or Cold air? If it is factory remove the tubing going back to the engine and check for extra oil.

A clogged PCV valve can blow out seals super quick.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I would get a new PCV valve from the dealer, avoid aftermarket if you can.
Just got back from the dealership - hard to believe they actually had the part I needed since normally they have no stock for my 2013. So, going to change the PCV valve as soon as I'm done replying to this email.

I would change the oil to play it safe.
Stopped by Autozone and picked up a 5L jug and a K&N Oil Filter. Car is already up and been draining for the last few hours while I was out.

Make sure you have clean plugs, a fouled plug can be causing the misfire, double check the gap.
I've got three different sets of plugs over the last few days - E3s and two sets of Autolites - plus the originals. The E3s haven't been used yet - I will stick them in to replace the Autolites.

You might want to access the turbo and clean it up the best you can, get the oil residue.
I did this yesterday really good - although, when you say access to the turbo - you mean the space between where the intake connects and the propeller looking thing inside of it? Or is there further access to it without removing it that I don't know about?

Do you have factory air filter housing or a SRI or Cold air? If it is factory remove the tubing going back to the engine and check for extra oil.
Factory with K&N Oil Filter. I've pulled it out and cleaned it with the recharging kit but put just a standard air filter in there until I get this sorted just in case I get more oil into the intake by accident. As with the turbo - I cleaned the airfilter box, etc.

A clogged PCV valve can blow out seals super quick.
Crossing my fingers :)

Thanks of the help so far guys!

- Marco
 

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I meant just take off the stock air box tubing and clean as far back as you can.

I meant what you did with access to the turbine.

Do not use the E3's Snoopy did a review on them and it was not good.

Report back and tell us how it is running, also try to clear the code on the ECU, either with a scanner or if do not have one in the meantime disconnect the neg battery cable for a few minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Report back and tell us how it is running, also try to clear the code on the ECU, either with a scanner or if do not have one in the meantime disconnect the neg battery cable for a few minutes.
Ok, I just did a full oil/filter change, changed the PVC valve although when I took the old one out I could still hear it rattle but not as much as the new one. I unhooked the neg on the battery and put in the second pair of Autolites (instead of the E3s)...

Car started, no engine check light but still so rough - you can tell it is misfiring still. I took it for a drive around the block - it was tough - and it was a huge smoke show behind me. Engine light came on. Parked it back in the garage and turned it off. Put the cheap ass debug adapter onto my diagnostic port and the code says "P0301 - cylinder 1 misfire detected".

What else can I try to help figure out what is causing it?

Kind Regards,

- Marco
 

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You are burning off excess oil. For the hell of it take off the hose going to the throttle body and see if there is any oil collected in there.

Have someone sit in the car and hit the gas pedal, take a flash light and look inside.

I am almost certain you can have the key up to the number 2 position but not running to do it.

Also, pull plug 1 and take a flash light and look into the sparkplug hole to see if oil is pooling.
 

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You'll need a buddy to help you with what I'm about to suggest. Make sure that cylinder 1 spark plug is actually working.

unplug your fuel pump relay from the passenger side fuse box and then start your car until it dies from lack of fuel (shouldn't take long). Undo your coil pack and remove cylinder 1 spark plug, plug the coil pack back into the harness and insert your spark plug into the coil pack, hold the tip of the spark plug very close to the engine block and have a buddy try to start your car, the spark should arc to the block (that's 'ground' for the spark plug. If it can't reach the block, anywhere on the head is fine as well. If it does not arc, the coil pack is fried.

You probably have quite a bit of oil in your intercooler by the way, you might want to consider removing your bumper and unhooking your intercooler and washing it. 2013s went to a solid aluminium intercooler so you can flood it with varsol, let it soak for a few minutes (plug one end and stand it up end to end) and then drain the varsol out. If it comes out amber coloured, it was dirty, if it comes out clear, you're lucky.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You are burning off excess oil. For the hell of it take off the hose going to the throttle body and see if there is any oil collected in there.
Just to make sure I'm not taking off the wrong hose - it is the hose connected to the part listed as 35100 in this picture, right?



Also, pull plug 1 and take a flash light and look into the sparkplug hole to see if oil is pooling.
Ok, went and did that just now after reading your post - I can see oil. Does that mean it is pooling or should I be able to see a little bit?

- Marco
 

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unplug your fuel pump relay from the passenger side fuse box and then start your car until it dies from lack of fuel (shouldn't take long). Undo your coil pack and remove cylinder 1 spark plug, plug the coil pack back into the harness and insert your spark plug into the coil pack, hold the tip of the spark plug very close to the engine block and have a buddy try to start your car, the spark should arc to the block (that's 'ground' for the spark plug. If it can't reach the block, anywhere on the head is fine as well. If it does not arc, the coil pack is fried.
Snoopy - I will do this first thing in the AM when someone is available to help me. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing - the coil pack is this:



You probably have quite a bit of oil in your intercooler by the way, you might want to consider removing your bumper and unhooking your intercooler and washing it. 2013s went to a solid aluminium intercooler so you can flood it with varsol, let it soak for a few minutes (plug one end and stand it up end to end) and then drain the varsol out. If it comes out amber coloured, it was dirty, if it comes out clear, you're lucky.
Thank you - I wouldn't even have known about this and I will definitely do this. In fact, I need to remove the bumper because I have a brand new front bumper taking up a huge amount of space in my garage. I picked it up a few months ago from the dealership because a pylon had put a crack in the right side of my current one and I figured $289 was a lot cheaper than the deductible I would've had to pay to Geico. This varsol stuff - I can buy that at Lowes or an auto parts store? Also, do I need to put anything into the intercooler after it has been cleaned?

Man, I really appreciate all the help :)

- Marco
 

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Yes we're talking about the same part.

You should be able to buy Varsol at either of those places. Once its been flushed just air it out or use a blow dryer and feed the hot air through one side. Varsol has a relatively how evaporation temperature. It is flammable so no open flames.

If you can see oil pooled on the piston you should buy a cylinder vacuum attachment and hoover it out. Should be able to get one at large auto supply store.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Yes we're talking about the same part.
Perfect - obviously with three sets of plugs I've become quite proficient at taking them out :p

You should be able to buy Varsol at either of those places. Once its been flushed just air it out or use a blow dryer and feed the hot air through one side. Varsol has a relatively how evaporation temperature. It is flammable so no open flames.
Exellent - I will do this for sure - I just can't believe my stupidity has lead to this nightmare. At least I know I will never ever make this mistake again.

If you can see oil pooled on the piston you should buy a cylinder vacuum attachment and hoover it out. Should be able to get one at large auto supply store.
I actually purchased this today - can I use this?



Sorry about the rotation :-(

- Marco

EDIT: Nevermind, I think you mean a real vacuum cleaner - I've got a shop-vac and an attachment that would work. Will do.
 
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