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Cone Killa
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When I tried using the factory 2011+ end links my sway bar was dangerously close to the tie rod. Does this mean I'm too low? Lol. This is with the car off the ground by the way
 

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Pulleys were a pain to spec to 170 lbs but it was done lol.
Yeah I need to buy a proper torque wrench mine doesn't go any further than 170ft lbs



Does Unorthodox recommend that torque spec? I ask because factory spec is 210-225 lbs.
When I tried using the factory 2011+ end links my sway bar was dangerously close to the tie rod. Does this mean I'm too low? Lol. This is with the car off the ground by the way
When you adjust endlinks you have the car on the ground. That way you adjust the endlinks length properly. Tie rod will be close but shouldn't touch when driving lol
 

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Cone Killa
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But the length of the factory 2011+ end links aren't adjustable. Are you talking about adjusting the height of the front coilover so you have good clearance? Also see my prior post. Pretty much asking what amount of lowering is best to keep good geometry.
 

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The consensus from "experts" is that no lowering is recommended for this car, here's a good breakdown done by a reputable racing/suspension company that basically gave up on us because of the shortcomings of the suspension: http://www.gencoupe.com/suspension-2008-2012/12834-gencoupe-suspension-revealed.html

But the basic rule is if the rear lower control arm goes past parallel to the ground you're too low for optimal handling.
 

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Also, the height of the car makes a disproportionate difference to the length of the endlink, I have adjustable endlinks in the front (2011+ length), the amount I had to adjust them to go to zero pre-load again after I lowered my car was about 1/4", I lowered the car probably about 2".
 

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Cone Killa
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The consensus from "experts" is that no lowering is recommended for this car, here's a good breakdown done by a reputable racing/suspension company that basically gave up on us because of the shortcomings of the suspension: http://www.gencoupe.com/suspension-2008-2012/12834-gencoupe-suspension-revealed.html.

But the basic rule is if the rear lower control arm goes past parallel to the ground you're too low for optimal handling.
Just went through the entire thread. That was both depressing and enlightening.

I'm way too low in the rear. My RLCAs are pointing up. I also have too much rear negative camber but my damn rear camber bolts are seized to the inner sleeves of the bushings.

Also, the height of the car makes a disproportionate difference to the length of the endlink, I have adjustable endlinks in the front (2011+ length), the amount I had to adjust them to go to zero pre-load again after I lowered my car was about 1/4", I lowered the car probably about 2".
So what's most important in regard to end links is to make sure there is no preload on the bar and then for our cars you want them as long as possible without hitting the tie rod so that they don't affect steering when going over bumps, right?
 

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Just went through the entire thread. That was both depressing and enlightening.

I'm way too low in the rear. My RLCAs are pointing up. I also have too much rear negative camber but my damn rear camber bolts are seized to the inner sleeves of the bushings.

So what's most important in regard to end links is to make sure there is no preload on the bar and then for our cars you want them as long as possible without hitting the tie rod so that they don't affect steering when going over bumps, right?
The lower you are in the rear the more camber you have by default, before lowering I could go above the factory -1.5 degrees but now I can't, I'm stuck with -1.5, I'd rather have -1 or -0.5 degrees. And yes, traditionally adjustable links offer the most benefit to someone who is corner balancing the car but it can be of benefit even if you don't by reducing bump steer and the amount of shock bumps transmit to the steering column, so the 2011+ length and then adjusted while on the car and the car on the ground.
 

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Cone Killa
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Just went through the entire thread. That was both depressing and enlightening.

I'm way too low in the rear. My RLCAs are pointing up. I also have too much rear negative camber but my damn rear camber bolts are seized to the inner sleeves of the bushings.

So what's most important in regard to end links is to make sure there is no preload on the bar and then for our cars you want them as long as possible without hitting the tie rod so that they don't affect steering when going over bumps, right?
The lower you are in the rear the more camber you have by default, before lowering I could go above the factory -1.5 degrees but now I can't, I'm stuck with -1.5, I'd rather have -1 or -0.5 degrees. And yes, traditionally adjustable links offer the most benefit to someone who is corner balancing the car but it can be of benefit even if you don't by reducing bump steer and the amount of shock bumps transmit to the steering column, so the 2011+ length and then adjusted while on the car and the car on the ground.
I'm going to PM you later bc I don't want to keep hijacking OP's thread. Thanks
 

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Just went through the entire thread. That was both depressing and enlightening.

I'm way too low in the rear. My RLCAs are pointing up. I also have too much rear negative camber but my damn rear camber bolts are seized to the inner sleeves of the bushings.

So what's most important in regard to end links is to make sure there is no preload on the bar and then for our cars you want them as long as possible without hitting the tie rod so that they don't affect steering when going over bumps, right?
The lower you are in the rear the more camber you have by default, before lowering I could go above the factory -1.5 degrees but now I can't, I'm stuck with -1.5, I'd rather have -1 or -0.5 degrees. And yes, traditionally adjustable links offer the most benefit to someone who is corner balancing the car but it can be of benefit even if you don't by reducing bump steer and the amount of shock bumps transmit to the steering column, so the 2011+ length and then adjusted while on the car and the car on the ground.
I'm going to PM you later bc I don't want to keep hijacking OP's thread. Thanks
No continue ! I like exchange of info ! Lol please

I was going to comment on everything when I got home I was really busy lol
 

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Swaping end links seems to be another one of those stiffer is better trends that has some negative effects. Starting with the front end links, longer is better. Hyundai went to the longer end links in 2011 because their design is flawed. The end link is connected to the strut/coilover so when you turn tension is applied to the sway bar. This is because the strut/coilover rotates as you turn. As the strut rotates it applies force to the end link by twisting it. Hyundai should have connected the sway bar end link to the lower control arm. The negative effect is experienced when one of the front wheels is forced to change its geometry more than the other, like when you hit a bump. The extra force that is applied to that wheel will transfer into the steering and make the steering wheel turn on you. The stiffer and the shorter the end link, the more force will be transferred back into the steering. The end links that reduce this steering wheel kick back the most are the factory 2011+ end links. Those are the ones to go with. Stiffness is best adjusted with the sway bar not the end links. To experience it yourself simply go over a speed bump with only one front tire or go up a drive way at an angle and see how much your steering wheel moves on its own. In a perfect world your suspension should soak up it up without effecting your steering. In regards to racing if you take a corner and hit the inside rumble strips with one tire and your steering changes, even a little, it's going to change your line. Physically your reactions are not fast enough to keep the steering wheel from moving. Now the rear end links. Some people have been bending their rear end links after going to the Whiteline rear sway bar. That's because that sway bar is so stiff that it applies enough force to lift your inside rear wheel off the ground. Your rear end links were not designed to take all that force. By going to a Whiteline rear sway, set on stiff, and stiffer rear end links you have just tuned your car to drive on 3 wheels around turns.

By the way, everything that I have posted is based on track experimentation. From different end links, tires, sway bars, alignments, on and on. I don't claim to know everything, just posting what I have learned from tuning my suspension.

-1320drift from his Suspension 101 thread you should take a read when you can. Ill be keeping the longer, thinner endlinks for now. :)

for the pulleys it was a bitch i had to hold another pulley will another socket.

Anything stillen or eibach is good quality! I used whiteline because they have the thickest and stiffest sway bar available. I havent looked to much into the grease/maintenance issues.

Thanks man for the compliment!
Hey,

I'm going to research your comments about the endlinks. You make perfect sense but wonder what caused the wheel hop I will feel before swapping was from the endlinks or swaybars. I did both at the same time. My issue with the eibach is that they get noisy if they are not greased up like every 3 months. And without a nipple, I have remove the bracket and apply grease. Versus if it has a nipple I can just spray it in.

I continue to learn from you.
 

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Cone Killa
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No continue ! I like exchange of info ! Lol please

I was going to comment on everything when I got home I was really busy lol
Ok cool.

So we've agreed on this: if your rear lower control arms are pointing up instead of being parallel with the ground, you're too low. I'm assuming the same goes for the front controls arms.

Now where I'm still unclear:

I have a 2010. 2010s had a different sway bar end link design. The end links faced away from each other. For all 2011+ models, the end links are longer than the 2010 units and the end links are only turned 90 degrees from each other.

When I installed my coilovers with 2011+ OE end links, the end links were too long. To get the end links to fit, the sway bar would be touching the tie rods.

Now, this was with the car in the air.

If I'm understanding @intertiamonster right, the end links would not cause the sway bar to touch the tie rods once the car was on the ground. That's because the height of the car and the distance the end links move is disproportionate. They might touch under heavy load.

What I ended up doing was using Whiteline adjustable end links. They are of 2010 end link length, but since they're adjustable, you can change the orientation of the links to the proper 90 degree turn so that you can fit them onto coilovers witch usually have the 2011+ end link mounting bracket location.

I actually ended up taking these off and using end links that came with my coilovers (they initially forgot to include them). The ones provided are not adjustable, but they're of 2010 length but have the 90 degree turn in them so they can fit the coilovers.

Here's a picture of 2011+ OE end links vs Whiteline adjustable end links:


@Tuffbuffalooo you are using OE 2011+ end links with your coilovers, right? When installing them, have you noticed that they cause the sway bar to touch the tie rods but once on the ground they don't touch? Does your setup cause any preload on the swaybar? And are your rear control arms parallel to the ground? You look pretty low in the rear.
 

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Ok cool.

So we've agreed on this: if your rear lower control arms are pointing up instead of being parallel with the ground, you're too low. I'm assuming the same goes for the front controls arms.

Now where I'm still unclear:

I have a 2010. 2010s had a different sway bar end link design. The end links faced away from each other. For all 2011+ models, the end links are longer than the 2010 units and the end links are only turned 90 degrees from each other.

When I installed my coilovers with 2011+ OE end links, the end links were too long. To get the end links to fit, the sway bar would be touching the tie rods.

Now, this was with the car in the air.

If I'm understanding @intertiamonster right, the end links would not cause the sway bar to touch the tie rods once the car was on the ground. That's because the height of the car and the distance the end links move is disproportionate. They might touch under heavy load.

What I ended up doing was using Whiteline adjustable end links. They are of 2010 end link length, but since they're adjustable, you can change the orientation of the links to the proper 90 degree turn so that you can fit them onto coilovers witch usually have the 2011+ end link mounting bracket location.

I actually ended up taking these off and using end links that came with my coilovers (they initially forgot to include them). The ones provided are not adjustable, but they're of 2010 length but have the 90 degree turn in them so they can fit the coilovers.

Here's a picture of 2011+ OE end links vs Whiteline adjustable end links:



@Tuffbuffalooo you are using OE 2011+ end links with your coilovers, right? When installing them, have you noticed that they cause the sway bar to touch the tie rods but once on the ground they don't touch? Does your setup cause any preload on the swaybar? And are your rear control arms parallel to the ground? You look pretty low in the rear.
Actually the KW's came if their own set of non-adjustable endlinks. When the car was not touching the ground, yes the sway bar was resting on the tie rod. This is very common in fact you have nothing to worry about unless you're two-wheeling out of an apex lol. The rear arms should be parallel but will most likely never be because of the OEM configuration. Even with the recommended settings of KW they are not parallel. With the factory suspension they're just barely parallel i believe don't quote me on that lol. They do sell subframe risers that correct geometry 1/2 an inch. On my Stance coils I was low, and I never really corrected it unfortunately. I'll post some pics of the ride height now with the KW's soon, maybe this week. I've written up on it yet, I'm waiting a couple days to get the feel for them and I can properly answer your questions :)

The rear might look alot lower because of the huge difference in tire width 255/40 F and 285/40 in the rear. Even with the Kw's I dont have a "raked" look/setup so it will look like it's taller in front but it's just leveled.
 

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Excuse the crappy pics lol. You can see that the RLCA are not parallel even though they are way less angled than when I was lower.

To answer you preload question,

GenRacerJeff:
well techinically as soon as you turn the wheel there will be some preload. But if you can minimize as much as possible with the wheel straight while static, it will help neutralize a sway bar.

On an adjustable sway bar that has 2 holes on each side for adjustment, you actually have 3 settings.
1 - setting: endlinks attached at the farthest hole (making the sway bar longest) for softest
2 - setting: one endlink mounted in the farthest hole and another endlink in the shortest hole for medium setting
3 - setting: both endlinks in the shortest hole for the stiffest setting

In the second setting, thats where endlink length really matters. As both endlinks can not be at the same length to have zero preload.

If you ever wanted to test the affects of this, you can put the car on scales and monitor the corner weights while lengthening or shortening one sway bar endlink. You will see weight transfer when you do this. This is always important to disconnect your sway bar endlinks when corner balancing.


---From the Suspension 101 thread (that thread is gold lol)
 

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Cone Killa
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375 Posts
Ok cool.

So we've agreed on this: if your rear lower control arms are pointing up instead of being parallel with the ground, you're too low. I'm assuming the same goes for the front controls arms.

Now where I'm still unclear:

I have a 2010. 2010s had a different sway bar end link design. The end links faced away from each other. For all 2011+ models, the end links are longer than the 2010 units and the end links are only turned 90 degrees from each other.

When I installed my coilovers with 2011+ OE end links, the end links were too long. To get the end links to fit, the sway bar would be touching the tie rods.

Now, this was with the car in the air.

If I'm understanding @intertiamonster right, the end links would not cause the sway bar to touch the tie rods once the car was on the ground. That's because the height of the car and the distance the end links move is disproportionate. They might touch under heavy load.

What I ended up doing was using Whiteline adjustable end links. They are of 2010 end link length, but since they're adjustable, you can change the orientation of the links to the proper 90 degree turn so that you can fit them onto coilovers witch usually have the 2011+ end link mounting bracket location.

I actually ended up taking these off and using end links that came with my coilovers (they initially forgot to include them). The ones provided are not adjustable, but they're of 2010 length but have the 90 degree turn in them so they can fit the coilovers.

Here's a picture of 2011+ OE end links vs Whiteline adjustable end links:



@Tuffbuffalooo you are using OE 2011+ end links with your coilovers, right? When installing them, have you noticed that they cause the sway bar to touch the tie rods but once on the ground they don't touch? Does your setup cause any preload on the swaybar? And are your rear control arms parallel to the ground? You look pretty low in the rear.
Actually the KW's came if their own set of non-adjustable endlinks. When the car was not touching the ground, yes the sway bar was resting on the tie rod. This is very common in fact you have nothing to worry about unless you're two-wheeling out of an apex lol. The rear arms should be parallel but will most likely never be because of the OEM configuration. Even with the recommended settings of KW they are not parallel. With the factory suspension they're just barely parallel i believe don't quote me on that lol. They do sell subframe risers that correct geometry 1/2 an inch. On my Stance coils I was low, and I never really corrected it unfortunately. I'll post some pics of the ride height now with the KW's soon, maybe this week. I've written up on it yet, I'm waiting a couple days to get the feel for them and I can properly answer your questions


The rear might look alot lower because of the huge difference in tire width 255/40 F and 285/40 in the rear. Even with the Kw's I dont have a "raked" look/setup so it will look like it's taller in front but it's just leveled.
Interesting, what's the length of thr KW end links? And do you have a link to the subframe risers?
 

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Cone Killa
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Interesting, what's the length of thr KW end links? And do you have a link to the subframe risers?
The length I don't know I'd have to double check.

https://store.partsshopmax.com/shop/GenCoupe/SolidBushing/
Yeah I'd be interested to see if the KW links are longer or shorter than the OEM 2011+.

I might just try the factory 2011+ end links again on my car. If the sway bar doesn't separate from the tie rod once the car is on the ground I'm going to hate you guys lol.

Aw shet, they replace the entire diff bushing. Would be cool for #racecar but can be a lot of work. Don't the 240 guys have like collars that act as spacers on top of the OE bushings so that you don't have to mess with removing the subframe and stuff? I've had a couple 240s and remember their risers being just collars.
 

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Some shots of the car how it sits! :)

So, for the little I've driven I have to say I am already impressed. I'll break it down.

Pulleys: They've made such a difference in response especially on the low end. It's very willing to rev. Imagine wearing 20 pound ankle weights for weeks then removing them. It really wakes up the car and plus it looks really nice in the engine bay haha.

Whiteline Swaybar: turn-in response is incredibly increased partially due to the new KWs but definitely feels more precise through a corner on the street. The nose of the car just feels more willing to your inputs.

KWs: What can I say, I've wasted 2 years with those stance coils. It should have felt way from the beginning. Comfort levels on the street is incredible. The ride is still firm and sporty but it's very easy going over bumps and there has been a significant reduction in NVH. Since it's just been driven on street I can't really comment on the performance aspect but on street it feels more planted. Stance coils, even though were stiffer they were finicky at higher speeds. KW's definitely are more predictable. I feel significantly more in control.


If anybody has more specific questions just let me know. Happy to answer.
 

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Yeah I'd be interested to see if the KW links are longer or shorter than the OEM 2011+.

I might just try the factory 2011+ end links again on my car. If the sway bar doesn't separate from the tie rod once the car is on the ground I'm going to hate you guys lol.

Aw shet, they replace the entire diff bushing. Would be cool for #racecar but can be a lot of work. Don't the 240 guys have like collars that act as spacers on top of the OE bushings so that you don't have to mess with removing the subframe and stuff? I've had a couple 240s and remember their risers being just collars.
ENTHUSPEC Performance Subframe Washer Kit for 2010+ Genesis Coupe (E-GEN-COLLAR)

Thats what you're looking for :)
 
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