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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Bedding in Your Brakes & Basic Brake Info

Ok guys, I have seen a few people already getting some BBK (Big Brake Kits) and others upgrading their stock setup; and I am wondering if they know what they got themselves into with regards to noise, dust, operational temperature range, coefficient of friction, pedal feel, bedding the brakes, slotted, cross drill, etc. This thread is not necessarily aimed to address all those, but later I might provide my two cents.

However, this thread will start off with a tool I use to help get the best out of my brakes!!

If you are spending that kind of cash on this kind on a BBK setup, you should make sure not to ruin your investment. You should learn to properly bed in or brake in your brakes (no play on words intended):rofl:.

For those who do an upgrade of pads, rotors, lines, and fluids, this is just as important to get the most out of you $$$ and to protect your investment!

I did not invent this, nor do I take credit for this idea. This is just a very useful tool most of us seen, but here you go.

Discussion from Stoptech why it is important to bed in your brakes.

Text desciption on how to brake in your brakes can be found here:
Instructions for bedding in your brakes

For those who wish not to follow the link above this is what it says

Dave Zeckhausen said:
How to Bed-in Your Brakes

by Dave Zeckhausen

Bedding allows your brakes to reach their full potential. Until they are bedded, your brakes simply do not work as well as they can. If you've installed a big brake kit, changed your pads and rotors, or even purchased a brand new car, you should set aside time to bed the brakes according to the instructions below. Proper bedding improves pedal feel, reduces or eliminates brake squeal, prevents (and often cures) brake judder, reduces brake dust, and extends the life of your pads and rotors. For more on the theory of bedding, please refer to this excellent article by StopTech: Removing the Mystery from Brake Pad Bed-In.

Caution: Immediately after installing new pads, rotors or a big brake kit, the first few applications of the brakes will result in very little braking power. Gently use the brakes a few times at low speed in order to build up some grip before blasting down the road at high speed. Otherwise, you may be in for a nasty surprise the first time you hit the brakes at 60 mph.

If you have just installed rotors with zinc or cadmium plating, or if the rotors have an anti-corrosion phosphate coating, you should postpone the bedding process until normal driving has allowed your brake pads to polish the rotors clean and removed all traces of the plating or coating. If your new brake rotors have an oily anti-corrosion coating, you should clean this off thoroughly with brake cleaning spray and/or hot soapy water.

Read and understand these bedding instructions completely before starting. If you have questions, give us a call or email. Do not substitute higher speeds for the 60mph called for in these instructions. The heat in your brakes goes up exponentially as you increase the speed from which you brake. If you make repeated stops from 80 or 90mph with street pads, you will overheat the brakes and may end up having to replace pads and/or rotors.

When following these instructions, avoid other vehicles. Bedding is often best done early in the morning, when traffic is light, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and may respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. A police officer will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions. Use common sense!

1. From 60mph, gently apply the brakes a couple of times to bring them up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

2. Make eight to ten near-stops from 60mph to about 10-15 mph. Do it HARD by pressing the brakes firmly, but do not lock the wheels or engage ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph and then apply the brakes again. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely and sit with your foot on the brake pedal, you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which could lead to vibration and uneven braking.

3. The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.

4. After the last near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and cruise for a while, using the brakes as little as possible. The brakes need only a few minutes to cool down. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still very hot.

5. If full race pads, such as Hawk DTC-70 or Performance Friction PFC01 are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10 mph.

After the break-in cycle, there should be a slight blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. This is especially true if you have installed new pads on old rotors, since the pads need time to conform to the old rotor wear pattern. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer. If necessary, bleed the brakes to improve pedal firmness.

Color change to a gray/blue is normal (of course ceramic rotors and rotors that have anti rust coatings don't start out like this, so these pictures are for standard rotor material and prep coatings)

Before
After

Before
After

Before
After


The surface texture will change too.

This color change information was found on this site Essex - Learning Center - Know Brakes 1: How to Bed-in Brake Pads and Rotors
Which has additional information about bedding your brakes. Note there are many suggested ways to bed your brakes.
 

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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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189 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
WORK IN PROGRESS****Rotor discussion (my two cents and Brembo's, Stoptech's, Tirerack's, and Racing Brakes)

  • Floating Rotor -
    1. Lighter rotor (12-16% weight reduction varied with the size and design) than original one-piece rotor – meaning lower spinning weight.
    2. Cooler disc - due to higher heat dissipation rate of aluminum hat as compared to cast iron
    3. True full sliding design (unlike others out in the marketplace) allows the disc to expand and contract freely without stressing the hat. This helps prevent the disc from warping or cracking.
    4. Allows consumers to replace only the rotor ring, while re-using the hat. Although the initial cost of two-piece rotors is higher than one-piece rotors, the lifetime operating cost could be lower.
  • Ceramic
  • Surface Types
    • Drilled / Crossed Drilled -
      Designed to help the rotor to release heat, also they add some resistance to the boundary layer of gasses that can build up between the pad and rotor. These gases aid in the vitrification process of the pad/rotor, which lower the frictional coefficient (braking ability). This is beneficial as too much heat causes the brake setup to lose braking efficiency once out of the intended operational heat range specified for the application (note: street vs race pads have much different functional ranges). Once the brake goes above the functional range it was designed for, the brake setup "fades" as: stock OEM brake lines expand, the pads frictional coefficient decreases, and brake fluid boiling (which releases a compressible gas).
    • Slotted -

      The slots provide paths to disperse built-up heat and gasses and assist in refreshing the surface of the brake pads. This "refreshing" of the pad surface keeps the pads soft and avoids vitrification (glassing over) of surfaces. Compared to cross-drilled rotors, machined slots have been widely adopted for racing and street use because they minimize the cracking caused by repeated, high stress, high temperature brake applications. The slots are angled to use the rotors’ direction of rotation to enhance their performance, which makes the rotors side-specific with left and right side rotors. For example Brembo's slotted brake rotors are sold in axle pairs and the easiest way to verify correct usage is to install the rotors on the side of the vehicle that results in the end of the slot nearest the outer edge of the rotor always contacting the brake pads first.
    • Dimpled - .....
    • ****Note In my experience many tracks will not permit cars on the track that have drilled rotors due to the higher potential for the rotors to crack/brake as these holes are stress concentrator. I have not experienced this with slotted rotors; however, warning of not being able to use drilled and slotted rotors on "high-speed tracks" is provided when purchasing Brembo drill and slotted rotors for replacement of OEM rotors on tirerack****

Note that most of this information I have written, and then I have scrapped what I was going to say as it was worded much clear via Brembo, TireRack, Stoptech when I checked with what I wrote. So again I take no credit in posting this as this should be common information, but I am organizing if for people to quickly reference.
 

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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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189 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Reserved for Pad discussion (my two cents)

  • Noise
  • Dust
  • Operational temperture range
  • Coieffient of friction
 

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3.5L TT but wrong body
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Same video I used for direction on bedding mine in. They made all sorts of smells but grab the rotor like a fat chick grabs a double whopper now.
 

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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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189 Posts
If this is a repost, admin please close and sticky one that is already complete. Also looks like I am in the wrong section, can you move it over to the brakes and rims section. I was just responding to Shuru's thread in this section on "StopTech Trophy Kit Installed w/ Pics, some issues..." and did not even realize we are in the wrong section.

Thanks Slider:bigthumbup:

grab the rotor like a fat chick grabs a double whopper now.
:rofl::rofl:

Yea, the Stoptechs hurt they brake so hard
 

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lovin my 300+hp hyundai
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If you had new rotors and pads installed at say a NTB ... I never asked them if they did this. I just assumed a professional place would know to do it. Anyway to tell? If they did or didn't besides asking them lol? I have over 1500+ miles on them now.
 

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I just installed my rotors/pads today, I wish I had read your info before I did my install. :(

I used this info off the Hawk site.
Hawk Performance Brake Pads: High Performance Street

Bed in instructions

1.After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
2.Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
3.DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
4.Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down.
5.After step 4 your new pads are ready for use.
 

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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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Justin5117 I would have to say they most likely didn't. They just do the install, this takes some road room to conduct and is best done on a track or some vacant lot... I do not endorse speeding on public roads or in vacant lots. This bedding is also meant to maximize performance and lift of your brake setup, so the shop is just concerned about if the install was done and the car is safe to drive. You should read the link provided.

Just going on if your brakes are bedding in proper or not, however there may be other reasons for some of these
  • When you brake, do you feel a shutter/vibration (I am not asking about the ABS)? If so, are you sure your wheels are balanced and your have a proper alignment? If so, then mostly likely you have an uneven layer of pad built up on the surface of the rotors, thus a poor bedding of the ceramic brake pad material.
  • Based on past experience do you feel like your brakes are squealing more then you would expect from this rotor pad combo, based on your? If so you might not have had them properly broken in. NOTE more aggressive pad tend to make more noise when they are used, so this might be normal, that is why I ask you to compare to past experience
At your mileage of use, I believe you still can bed the brakes, but it might be not as effective. Maybe a few more repeated bedding step might help to over come the uneven layer of pad material, if present. This is just my opinion

Sounds more like step to prep the pad and not in addition to the new rotor.

As long as you did not sitting on you brakes at a complete stop for too long, after really braking hard, you shouldn't have imprint all that much pad material onto the hot rotors (Just my opinion). Do you notice any immediate vibrations or uneven braking? Again this is to get optimal performance and life out of your setup.
 

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The OG
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Nice thread. Good info for those who don't know about this topic.

Stuck thread.
 

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Sounds more like step to prep the pad and not in addition to the new rotor.

As long as you did not sitting on you brakes at a complete stop for too long, after really braking hard, you shouldn't have imprint all that much pad material onto the hot rotors (Just my opinion). Do you notice any immediate vibrations or uneven braking? Again this is to get optimal performance and life out of your setup.
No vibrations that I could tell, I didn't think to spray any brake cleaner onto the new rotors though because I did notice that they had a thin layer of oil or something on them to keep them from corroding in the packaging.

They did get pretty hot but I wasn't sitting any any traffic lights for long, but I do notice a gray coloring on the rotors now and I'm guessing that's from the new pads?

Pictures here... post #56
http://www.gencoupe.com/r1-concepts-inc/54668-r1-concepts-genesis-coupe-limited-time-rotor-brakes-sale-3.html#post639066
 

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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
ManOnFire - I dont recall saying anything about brake cleaner onto the new rotors... Make sure to use the correct cleaner (Edit per ManOnFire post 13)

I was referring to a covalent bonding thin layer of pad material laid onto the rotor. This layer helps improve the braking, and it will be uneven if someone sits on the brakes at a complete stop if they heated up their rotor as described in the directions you had or in heavy use conditions like track use.

I think you are safe if you dont not feel no vibrations, but these vibrations would be under heavier conditions. No need to slam on your brakes to check.

The color of the rotor will change as you deposit the layer of pad material on the rotor. I am not sure of the color specifics as it can be different due to the type of rotor and the pre coatings/treatments it has (ie anti rust, cryo treatment)), and the pad you use.

But usually the color change to a gray/blue is normal





The texture will change too.
 

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Yeah I got the brake cleaner from the link you provided...

If your new brake rotors have an oily anti-corrosion coating, you should clean this off thoroughly with brake cleaning spray and/or hot soapy water.

All seems to be normal though and I'm really satified with the money I spent upgarding the base rotors/pads. Brake pedal is more sensitive now in the sense that I don't have to apply as much pressure to get the desired level of braking.

Thanks :)
 

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Mech Eng/Material Sci
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Discussion Starter #14
Ok I see what you are talking about regarding removing the oily anti-corrosion coating before bedding, I just use the soap solution. I just get nervous that someone will just say hey let me put some "WD-40 on that"... or something they shouldn't, thinking it is an appropriate alternative when it might not be. Who knows what happens then.
 

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Sorry guys for being an idiot but I need to know if I do this with the brembos that come on the r spec? Thanks and sorry for the question which you probably answered but I didn't see it.
 

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lovin my 300+hp hyundai
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NTB did not break them in. they squeal and vibrate. xml
 

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lovin my 300+hp hyundai
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repete FRACK NATIONAL TIRE AND BATTERY ... I will now learn how to do things myself
 

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That is a great write up! But I would like to make a change in your statement about "Floating rotors" The term floating rotor actually is how they are mounted on the axle. Such as behind the hub(like the older Accords) or Hub and rotors. So the Brembo rotors you have posted pictures of, are all floating rotors.

The term commonly used for the lighter rotor set like the picture are "2 piece" rotors. Where they use an aluminium hat(thats where the rotors touch the hubs) and cast iron disc surface. On extreme application Ceramic disc surface is used. Yes the aluminum hat will shave off weight allowing the disc surface to increase without adding on much weight.

Ok I see what you are talking about regarding removing the oily anti-corrosion coating before bedding, I just use the soap solution. I just get nervous that someone will just say hey let me put some "WD-40 on that"... or something they shouldn't, thinking it is an appropriate alternative when it might not be. Who knows what happens then.
Also correct~ Soapy water is fine, but NEVER use ANY lubricant. On the disc surface or on the contact surface of the pads. Its a good idea to put anti-squeal lube between the pad and the shim.

Hey quick question, I'm going to be replacing brake pads soon, should I get new rotors as well or just get them cleaned
What do you mean by get them cleaned? You mean turned correct?
You can turn them IF you are within the minimum thickness level of the rotors.
 
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