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Hi all,

As with every car, when you first start it up in the morning when it's nice and cool outside you feel your car is fast and responsive. The genny is no exception, except that it feels like mine heats up a little too quick in my opinion. As it starts getting hotter the throttle lag kicks in and the engine just feels lazy. What mods or anything can I do to keep my engine cool for as long as possible.

Thanks for the help.
 

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In Charge of Snacks
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Don't forget a remote oil cooler. I installed mine and nowadays, when I drive my car through the burning heat around Bishop or Phoenix, the temp indicator never rises above normal range. Always below the middle mark. You could also invest in a larger capacity all aluminum radiator and a dual fan setup. Real ceramic coating(plasma applied) of the log exhaust manifolds/headers and or thermal wrap will help keep under-hood temps down, too. The same will happen with a properly vented hood. These mods also serve to lower intake temps via reducing under-hood heat soak which helps performance.

You might also look into the new generations of advanced coolants. Products like Evan's waterless, etc. I'm not convinced they aren't snake oil, but if they did what they say they would enhance the car's ability to evacuate heat.

Concerning the cold air intake, throttle body thermal bypass, and phenolic spacer; they keep heat out of the intake charge, but don't have anywhere near the effect of the above mods at actually reducing engine operating temps. In fact, a cooler charge means a denser charge. So, more air in = more fuel = bigger bang = more heat... you're probably right around where you started, just with a higher efficiency/a few more HP. The phenolic thermal spacers are extremely effective at their job, though. I highly recommend one. After I installed mine my intake manifold after a hard run went from 190+ degrees and untouchably hot to 115 -125 with one of those laser infrared thermometers. Huge improvement. Also, the throttle body bypass is so friggin' easy you might as well do it. It should lower intake temps and so theoretically result in cooler, denser charge air and thus more power.

I hope this helps!
 

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Don't forget a remote oil cooler. I installed mine and nowadays, when I drive my car through the burning heat around Bishop or Phoenix, the temp indicator never rises above normal range. Always below the middle mark. You could also invest in a larger capacity all aluminum radiator and a dual fan setup. Real ceramic coating(plasma applied) of the log exhaust manifolds/headers and or thermal wrap will help keep under-hood temps down, too. The same will happen with a properly vented hood. These mods also serve to lower intake temps via reducing under-hood heat soak which helps performance.

You might also look into the new generations of advanced coolants. Products like Evan's waterless, etc. I'm not convinced they aren't snake oil, but if they did what they say they would enhance the car's ability to evacuate heat.

Concerning the cold air intake, throttle body thermal bypass, and phenolic spacer; they keep heat out of the intake charge, but don't have anywhere near the effect of the above mods at actually reducing engine operating temps. In fact, a cooler charge means a denser charge. So, more air in = more fuel = bigger bang = more heat... you're probably right around where you started, just with a higher efficiency/a few more HP. The phenolic thermal spacers are extremely effective at their job, though. I highly recommend one. After I installed mine my intake manifold after a hard run went from 190+ degrees and untouchably hot to 115 -125 with one of those laser infrared thermometers. Huge improvement. Also, the throttle body bypass is so friggin' easy you might as well do it. It should lower intake temps and so theoretically result in cooler, denser charge air and thus more power.

I hope this helps!

Not to poop on your parade here bud, but you do realize that the cooling system is thermostat operated, and unless the engine is actually overheating and the coolant temps are getting above safe levels, putting a larger radiator, fancier coolant, etc isn't going to change the operating temperature when it is actually controlled by the thermostat. And since it hasn't actually overheated that means the OEM cooling system has thus far been more than capable of providing adequate cooling to the engine during these operating conditions.
 

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3point8 Performance
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I've done a lot of posting about this topic. Check out my intake thread and random babbling here and there. Best thing you can do related to keeping IAT's down is the reduce heat soak on the upper manifold by applying heat shielding to the under side.

http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6-discussion-2013-up/504658-what-you-need-know-about-intakes.html



TB coolant by pass reduces IAT's up to 30%. http://www.gencoupe.com/3-8-v6-discussion-2013-up/596682-coolant-bypass-data.html

A TRUE CAI (sitting in the fender) if you really want to ditch the stock air box, but the stock air box is fine, it just needs heat shielding and an IAT sensor relocation.

As far as oil, get a thermostatic oil cooler.

On my setup, at WOT, I see ambient temps inside of the manifold at WOT.
 

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shorttrack
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V3 sprint Booster is on the market as well throttle lag is gone.
 

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shorttrack
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Not to poop on your parade here bud, but you do realize that the cooling system is thermostat operated, and unless the engine is actually overheating and the coolant temps are getting above safe levels, putting a larger radiator, fancier coolant, etc isn't going to change the operating temperature when it is actually controlled by the thermostat. And since it hasn't actually overheated that means the OEM cooling system has thus far been more than capable of providing adequate cooling to the engine during these operating conditions.
I use a non thermostatic oil cooler and must say it works fine. So your statement is flawed in regards to fancier coolers, also I also have water/meth with a 2nd tank used to spray distilled water during spirited runs around hot ass Houston TX and my temps stay down,way down.Switched over to my water/meth tank during a nitrous pass my Gen stays cool to the touch of the intake manifold and engine temps stay in check.My CAI is a true CAI system as it is insulated and pull air in from under the front fog light now vented and screened opening .These 3.8 can be kept cool despite OEM design flaws ,thinking outside the box you can solve any problem within reason.>:D
 

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I use a non thermostatic oil cooler and must say it works fine. So your statement is flawed in regards to fancier coolers, also I also have water/meth with a 2nd tank used to spray distilled water during spirited runs around hot ass Houston TX and my temps stay down,way down.Switched over to my water/meth tank during a nitrous pass my Gen stays cool to the touch of the intake manifold and engine temps stay in check.My CAI is a true CAI system as it is insulated and pull air in from under the front fog light now vented and screened opening .These 3.8 can be kept cool despite OEM design flaws ,thinking outside the box you can solve any problem within reason.>:D
So you're just prolonging the amount of time it takes your oil to warm up by running it through the cooler the moment you start it up. Doesn't sound like the greatest idea to me. Also, The water/meth injection is fine for dropping temps, however I was stating there isn't a reason to upgrade the coolant itself or the radiator if it isn't actually overheating because it is maintaining the designed coolant temperature range. I also have a true CAI and I also live in Texas.
 

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In Charge of Snacks
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Not to poop on your parade here bud, but you do realize that the cooling system is thermostat operated, and unless the engine is actually overheating and the coolant temps are getting above safe levels, putting a larger radiator, fancier coolant, etc isn't going to change the operating temperature when it is actually controlled by the thermostat. And since it hasn't actually overheated that means the OEM cooling system has thus far been more than capable of providing adequate cooling to the engine during these operating conditions.
You make a good point, though it doesn't tell the whole story. It is true that the increased cooling capacity would only be fully exploited above the stock thermostat's 205 degree full open state. It's more protection than it is performance increase, but likely better on both fronts.

See, more cooling capacity would flatten the temp gradient over time between 180 and 205 degrees F. So it would take more energy to affect the same rise in reported temps. That would definitely be considered as having an effect on operating temperature, though it would not strictly "change" operating temps. So you're technically correct there. Really, OP doesn't need enhanced cooling capacity, but you're wrong if you think more capacity won't change anything.

Hypothetically, If the temps are absolute static controlled perfectly by the thermostat, and ambient is absolute static as well, with the stock radiator/fans/coolant/oil cooler/etc. I can only spin say, 4500 rpm and maintain 190 degrees. Increase the cooling capacity and I can hold the same 190 degrees at 4750 rpm in the same conditions. It takes more energy to raise the temps by the same amount. The resulting temp number doesn't change, but the available performance does.

Consequently, one could spend more time driving like an asshat, or increase the magnitude of one's asshattery, between thermostat minimum and critical. Critical could also potentially be mildly increased due to effectively faster cooling. Certainly a more fun and carefree rig. Good enough doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

Regardless, this is probably not the range which OP is talking about. He/she wants more grunt via prolonging the warm up, not more time/safety at slightly reduced grunt after the warm up. The goal is inadvisable, but I get it. I guess one could go for a 165 degree thermostat instead. The oil cooler and thermal wrap/ceramics might help. Same could be said for a better engine compartment ventilation strategy. These would only delay the progression toward warm up, though- the difference measured in time rather than temp.

So you're just prolonging the amount of time it takes your oil to warm up by running it through the cooler the moment you start it up. Doesn't sound like the greatest idea to me. Also, The water/meth injection is fine for dropping temps, however I was stating there isn't a reason to upgrade the coolant itself or the radiator if it isn't actually overheating because it is maintaining the designed coolant temperature range. I also have a true CAI and I also live in Texas.
I have to agree with the first part on the oil cooler, here. Oil is meant to be at a certain viscosity which requires a certain set range of temperatures. An oil cooler isn't a bad idea in general considering engine oil functions as a primary coolant, but an inline thermostat is an improvement to allow oil to get to it's intended range faster and provide more coverage. Essentially the cooler should function to hold a temperature rather than decrease it. The second part I've already addressed.

As far as admittedly sketchy(fancier?) waterless coolant is concerned, there are distinct benefits purported; Reduced cavitation, increased lubricity, corrosion resistance, lifetime service intervals... The boiling point of Evans is over 350 degrees, I think. and I know at 212 it produces negligible pressure increases. But while I don't know the specific math, I feel it can't possibly hold as much heat. It might have properties allowing better heat absorption and transportation, but can it carry as much? It's like putting brake fluid in your engine so I'm not exactly endorsing it. As a weird safety note it has a flash point 100 degrees cooler than its boiling point. NEVER open the cap, I guess. I certainly am not comfortable with 350 degree coolant as a possibility. LOL. If I ever try it I'll definitely report back. I'll need a temp readout first and a baseline, so don't hold your breath.

Anyway, sorry this is so wordy. I've been drinking. Cheers!
 

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shorttrack
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THIS OBSERVATION IS OUT RIGHT FULL OF C-R-A-P >>>So you're just prolonging the amount of time it takes your oil to warm up by running it through the cooler the moment you start it up.<<<< Doesn't sound like the greatest idea to me. Also, The water/meth injection is fine for dropping temps, however I was stating there isn't a reason to upgrade the coolant itself or the radiator if it isn't actually overheating because it is maintaining the designed coolant temperature range. I also have a true CAI and I also live in Texas.
I start my gen and let it idle till temps begin to move .Being that I have over 30 years of performance engine building and have had oil coolers on every performance vehicle of mine,I have NEVER torn down any engine and witness bearing failure or higher bearing wear from running a non thermostatic oil cooler system.1 of the biggest problem with internet racers,they seem to make remarks on what they have heard VS what they know>:D.You stand to destroy bearings with excessive or not enough Oil pressure, and to note :running shitty oil is just as bad.:grin:
 

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I'd rather do it myself
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I had an air to oil cooler on my 2L with a 160F oil thermostat. It did OK but the oil in the winter never went above 160F which I consider too cold for long term enjoyment. I went then to an oil to water heat exchanger using coolant. This heats up the oil quite quick and helps to temper it when fully warmed. Much better than a straight oil to air.

Oil is rated at 212F viscosity wise.
 

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You make a good point, though it doesn't tell the whole story. It is true that the increased cooling capacity would only be fully exploited above the stock thermostat's 205 degree full open state. It's more protection than it is performance increase, but likely better on both fronts.

See, more cooling capacity would flatten the temp gradient over time between 180 and 205 degrees F. So it would take more energy to affect the same rise in reported temps. That would definitely be considered as having an effect on operating temperature, though it would not strictly "change" operating temps. So you're technically correct there. Really, OP doesn't need enhanced cooling capacity, but you're wrong if you think more capacity won't change anything.

Hypothetically, If the temps are absolute static controlled perfectly by the thermostat, and ambient is absolute static as well, with the stock radiator/fans/coolant/oil cooler/etc. I can only spin say, 4500 rpm and maintain 190 degrees. Increase the cooling capacity and I can hold the same 190 degrees at 4750 rpm in the same conditions. It takes more energy to raise the temps by the same amount. The resulting temp number doesn't change, but the available performance does.

Consequently, one could spend more time driving like an asshat, or increase the magnitude of one's asshattery, between thermostat minimum and critical. Critical could also potentially be mildly increased due to effectively faster cooling. Certainly a more fun and carefree rig. Good enough doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

Regardless, this is probably not the range which OP is talking about. He/she wants more grunt via prolonging the warm up, not more time/safety at slightly reduced grunt after the warm up. The goal is inadvisable, but I get it. I guess one could go for a 165 degree thermostat instead. The oil cooler and thermal wrap/ceramics might help. Same could be said for a better engine compartment ventilation strategy. These would only delay the progression toward warm up, though- the difference measured in time rather than temp.



I have to agree with the first part on the oil cooler, here. Oil is meant to be at a certain viscosity which requires a certain set range of temperatures. An oil cooler isn't a bad idea in general considering engine oil functions as a primary coolant, but an inline thermostat is an improvement to allow oil to get to it's intended range faster and provide more coverage. Essentially the cooler should function to hold a temperature rather than decrease it. The second part I've already addressed.

As far as admittedly sketchy(fancier?) waterless coolant is concerned, there are distinct benefits purported; Reduced cavitation, increased lubricity, corrosion resistance, lifetime service intervals... The boiling point of Evans is over 350 degrees, I think. and I know at 212 it produces negligible pressure increases. But while I don't know the specific math, I feel it can't possibly hold as much heat. It might have properties allowing better heat absorption and transportation, but can it carry as much? It's like putting brake fluid in your engine so I'm not exactly endorsing it. As a weird safety note it has a flash point 100 degrees cooler than its boiling point. NEVER open the cap, I guess. I certainly am not comfortable with 350 degree coolant as a possibility. LOL. If I ever try it I'll definitely report back. I'll need a temp readout first and a baseline, so don't hold your breath.

Anyway, sorry this is so wordy. I've been drinking. Cheers!
Sure, there is always room for improvement. I could mount a minigun for home defense in my apartment complex, and it would be an improvement offering more protection, however it is still overkill for all but very specific scenarios unlikely to truly happen. Yeah, the thermostat is 180-205 ish, and anything but actual extended track driving will show the OEM system is capable of maintaining those temps within the range. I drive my 3.8 down Texas toll roads at 100-110mph for extended periods of time coming home from work during the hottest parts of the day with the A/C on 100%. Not once have I seen the needle move beyond normal.

Intake air temps are a bit different of a conversation. There is some room for actual noticeable improvement over stock with a few easy changes to reduce heat soak.

Non-thermostatic oil coolers for the average user aren't the best idea as mentioned because it delays the oil from warming up, keeping its viscosity higher for longer as it tries to work between tight tolerances while colder under a high load because someone is driving like a jackass before it warms up.

I start my gen and let it idle till temps begin to move .Being that I have over 30 years of performance engine building and have had oil coolers on every performance vehicle of mine,I have NEVER torn down any engine and witness bearing failure or higher bearing wear from running a non thermostatic oil cooler system.1 of the biggest problem with internet racers,they seem to make remarks on what they have heard VS what they know>:D.You stand to destroy bearings with excessive or not enough Oil pressure, and to note :running shitty oil is just as bad.:grin:
Try not to get too defensive here bud.

1. Good job letting it at least start to move the oil temps up before driving it.

2. Why use a non-thermostatic oil cooler and even have to worry about it? What's the advantage? Why not use a non-thermostatic cooling system as well? Thermostats make life easier.

3. Congrats on having never torn down an engine and been able to quantify bear wear comparison between the two. Unless you have two identical engines run the exact same way with one variable (oil cooler setup) it will be hard to actually prove this from a scientific standpoint. However, the data is there to suggest that the quicker your oil gets to temp, the better it will be. Personal anecdotes along the lines of "I've never had a problem doing X" are rampant on forums.

4. Shitty oil? Please elaborate. I actually have several lab results from oil samples taken on my 3.8 that I'm willing to share. I'd encourage you to do the same and we can compare, for the sake of learning and backing up our statements.
 

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shorttrack
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Non-thermostatic oil coolers for the average user aren't the best idea as mentioned because it delays the oil from warming up, keeping its viscosity higher for longer as it tries to work between tight tolerances while colder under a high load because someone is driving like a jackass before it warms up.



Try not to get too defensive here bud. >>>I have thick skin (USMC) Bud.<<<

1. Good job letting it at least start to move the oil temps up before driving it.

2. Why use a non-thermostatic oil cooler and even have to worry about it? What's the advantage? Why not use a non-thermostatic cooling system as well? Thermostats make life easier. >>>No worries BUD,been doing this way too long to harbor such thoughts BUD.<<<

3. Congrats on having never torn down an engine and been able to quantify bear wear comparison between the two. Unless you have two identical engines run the exact same way with one variable (oil cooler setup) it will be hard to actually prove this from a scientific standpoint. However, the data is there to suggest that the quicker your oil gets to temp, the better it will be. Personal anecdotes along the lines of "I've never had a problem doing X" are rampant on forums.>>>>Have had many side by side comparisons on tear downs which is why I opt for non thermostatic BUD.<<<<

4. Shitty oil? Please elaborate .<<<lower Quality oil vs higher Quality oil should be self explanatory..BUD>> I actually have several lab results from oil samples taken on my 3.8 that I'm willing to share. I'd encourage you to do the same and we can compare, for the sake of learning and backing up our statements.
My proof is when I pull my Gen out of My garage and run the #'s at Royal Purple drag strip without breaking and then drive my Gen back to my House without any over heating issues BUD.Care to race at Royal Purple ,I can show you better than I can tell you BUD>:D.When I ran for the 1st time on Nitrous I had my oil tested just to make sure everything was fine ,I BUILD TURBINES AND VARIOUS ROTATING equipment within the petro/chemical industry that being said
At my job we have in house NDT and oil analyzing capacity (Costumer insurance claim on work can reach in the millions)for rework or claims adjustments.I don't test every time I change my oil (waste) but I do open my oil filter and examine it BUD.
 

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My proof is when I pull my Gen out of My garage and run the #'s at Royal Purple drag strip without breaking and then drive my Gen back to my House without any over heating issues BUD.Care to race at Royal Purple ,I can show you better than I can tell you BUD>:D.When I ran for the 1st time on Nitrous I had my oil tested just to make sure everything was fine ,I BUILD TURBINES AND VARIOUS ROTATING equipment within the petro/chemical industry that being said
At my job we have in house NDT and oil analyzing capacity (Costumer insurance claim on work can reach in the millions)for rework or claims adjustments.I don't test every time I change my oil (waste) but I do open my oil filter and examine it BUD.
Relax and set the ego down for a minute there Marine, not sure why all of you are so quick to get aggressive when the least bit of criticism is presented. You're (presumably) an adult and should be able to have a conversation using logic without getting that way, so let's try that.

#2 : As far as thermostatic vs non-thermostatic, you still haven't presented any logical evidence or reason as to why you chose that, so everyone who reads this thread can learn in the future. That is why I asked. Please elaborate on the side by side comparisons from teardowns.

#4 : What do you consider shitty oil? Asking for elaboration here, not just for myself but for everyone else. And if you've done oil analyses thats great! Share them with us! Unless there are some pretty large particles or lots of them, they won't show much in the filter when examined.

Side note: #'s at a drag strip don't really mean there couldn't technically be wear going on that hasn't made itself evident yet.
 

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shorttrack
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relax and set the ego down for a minute there marine, not sure why all of you are so quick to get aggressive when the least bit of criticism is presented. You're (presumably) an adult and should be able to have a conversation using logic without getting that way, so let's try that. <<<<<<<<<<not ego jr.,confidence.>:D

#2 : As far as thermostatic vs non-thermostatic, you still haven't presented any logical evidence or reason as to why you chose that, so everyone who reads this thread can learn in the future. That is why i asked. Please elaborate on the side by side comparisons from teardowns.>>>>>>> my knowledge is gained from working on and building the #1 engine that would come apart if any issues of oil high temps or lubrication faults would arise at ultra high rpm ,the mazda 13b bridge port and peripheral port race engines .i base my findings on these experiences and through many years of dabbling in racing in general .thermostatic is good for the average joe that does not understand that oil operates at a given temp and needs to stay within a envelope to perform as designed .i choose to run without 1 so that there is no possibility of failure and i have no oil cooling what so ever ,I would always choose constant flow/cooling.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< If in a cold environment then I would opt for a thermostatic oil cooling system.

#4 : What do you consider shitty oil? Asking for elaboration here, not just for myself but for everyone else. And if you've done oil analyses thats great! Share them with us! Unless there are some pretty large particles or lots of them, they won't show much in the filter when examined.>>>>>>If large particle have been caught within the filter i would pull my engine apart,access the damage,make parts list and re-build it.low grade oil is just that ,self explainitory.oil main job is to carry away heat,some oils brand do a better job than others. <<<<<<<<<<<<
Side note: #'s at a drag strip don't really mean there couldn't technically be wear going on that hasn't made itself evident yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>news flash,every time we start our cars wear is happening.depending on oil, oil filtration and oil cooling,engine abuse or not, will dictate if wear is accelerated or slowed.<<<<<<<<<<<<:wink:
 

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>news flash,every time we start our cars wear is happening.depending on oil, oil filtration and oil cooling,engine abuse or not, will dictate if wear is accelerated or slowed.<<<<<<<<<<<<:wink:
Still haven't answered #2 or #4 for educational purposes. Only gave a blank, general statement. I would like to learn from your vast knowledge on the subject, so please share.
 

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shorttrack
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Answered #2 and #4 in a educational purpose statement but going further will be on you.Do a search and you will find a in depth answer:nerd: .Time for me to head to work.It has been fun though,later.:grin:
 

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shorttrack
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Look in my thread #17 and you will see I interject my response into your #16 statement.>:D Adios amigo ,to work I go .:grin:
 
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