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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

First post so excuse me if i submit it incorrectly or say something wrong:/. 2010 3.8 185,000k manual trans

So some sad news :crying: my genesis threw a rod last week, so I'll need a new engine. First of all, any recommendations on how I should go about finding/ purchasing one? CANADA (Alberta) - Preferably a used engine with low km coming from a reliable source, possibly with a warranty?

Second, I was thinking about replacing the clutch as it will eventually need to be done and now that the engine is guns be out I may as well replace it as removing the engine is a significant cost of clutch repair. Good idea?? If so, any recommendations on a clutch, OEM, or something aftermarket. It's my daily drive but I also take it to a lot of meets and occasionally will drag a little with it, but nothing crazy on the engine I'm quite a passive driver and have 0 mods on it at the moment. Is a new flywheel a good idea as well?

So any other ideas you guys have for swaps please let me know!!
 

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It's a good call to change the clutch while the engine is out. Will save you a lot of labor down the line.

A new flywheel is definitely something you should be looking at with that many miles on the clock. The Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) that comes on the car is not very durable. The DMF on Project Hoondy (2010 V6 MT car) was almost completely dead at 45K miles. All the little springs and rubber bits wear out and the thing just collapses in on itself:



As for what to replace it with, you'd be crazy to go for OEM parts. The OEM flywheel by itself costs $1000+ and, like I said, has durability issues.

Since you are a self-described passive street driver who only does motorsport stuff with the car occasionally I would strongly recommend a steel single-piece flywheel. Aluminum flywheels aren't as durable and their extremely low weight makes them unsuitable for street driving, especially in stop-start traffic.



ACT makes the best after-market clutch components for my money. If you want something that fits like OEM but with better performance and durability you want ACT. They don't do crazy multi-disk clutch setups or exotic materials like kevlar. They just make robust, bullet-proof clutch kits with great streetability. The organic/metallic hybrid material they use for their friction disks feels great on the street, is tough enough for moderate track use, and wears like iron.

Along with the flywheel, pressure plate, and fiction disk, you should install a new throw-out bearing as well. They're prone to failure over time and you do not want a crappy little $100 part like that to force you to pull your transmission out of the car.

Shame about that thrown rod. The 3.8 is a pretty tough engine. I'm surprised it would fail in such a way with no nitrous, turbos, or other big power-adding mods installed. What oil were you running in the dead engine? How many miles did you normally go between changes?

Glad you're looking to fix your GenCoupe rather than scrap it and buy something else. Good luck and happy tuning!
 

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That's 185,000 km...not miles. That works out to about 118,000 miles. I too would like to know whether synthetic or regular oil was used and what brand. Was it run hard and down on oil? How often was it redlined and such...
 

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That's 185,000 km...not miles. That works out to about 118,000 miles.
I know it. The OP said "k" right in his own post. I just say "miles" out of habit when referring to the lifetime distance that a car has traveled.

120K miles is a long way for the stock DMF to suffer. The engine, on the other hand, should hardly be broken in at that point, even if you do drive it hard. Definitely curious about how something as severe as a thrown rod could happen at that mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow thank you so much for the info!! Glad to know the clutch is a good ides and definitely the throwout bearing, and I'll definitely consider new flywheel as obviously keeping mine is not a great idea. Do you think putting aftermarket rods in the new engine is worth it? They're pretty pricey and I know that this engine isn't well known for throwing them so maybe its not necessary.

As far as the driving- I bought the car about a month and a half ago, and have barely put any km's on it... I NEVER red line it- I always shift between 2.5-3k (probably a little low), but the first and only time I did red line (car was at running temp) it was when it threw the rod- and I didn't even red line it only took it to ~5800!!!???? Also, I DID get a compression test done when i bought the car, everything was good.

OIL- i haven't had the car long enough to change the oil, but I have receipts from the dealer and previous owner showing regular SYNTHETIC oil changes, and the oil in it now is crystal clear!! Enough to confuse my mechanic who has been in the job for over 50 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That's 185,000 km...not miles. That works out to about 118,000 miles. I too would like to know whether synthetic or regular oil was used and what brand. Was it run hard and down on oil? How often was it redlined and such...

I bought the car about a month and a half ago, and have barely put any km's on it... I NEVER red line it- I always shift between 2.5-3k (probably a little low), but the first and only time I did red line (car was at running temp) it was when it threw the rod- and I didn't even red line it only took it to ~5800!!!???? Also, I DID get a compression test done when i bought the car, everything was good.

OIL- i haven't had the car long enough to change the oil, but I have receipts from the dealer and previous owner showing regular SYNTHETIC oil changes, and the oil in it now is crystal clear!! Enough to confuse my mechanic who has been in the job for over 50 years.
 

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Ahhhhh, now it all makes sense. When you said "my genesis threw a rod" in your first post I made the assumption you'd had the car for most or all of its life when in fact you acquired it very recently.

Having receipts from dealer service is a plus, but that means they would have been using the cheapest synthetic oil that met the minimum requirements for the OEM spec. Also, they almost certainly would have been using the oil viscocity spec listed on the oil cap: 5W-20.

5W-20 is on the thin side for the 3.8 V6 and is specified by Hyundai in order to help the car get a better EPA fuel economy rating, not to help it have better durability.

Our BK1 V6 in Project Hoondy has run best on high-quality 5W-30 and 5W-40 synthetic motor oils. Changing oil weights on this platform is no big deal, the Genesis Coupe service manual even includes the following chart showing temperature range reccomendations for oil weights up to 20W-50!



There's no need to go super-high viscosity, but 5W-20 is thinner than is ideal for maximum durability. The only way I'd be comfortable running something as thin as 5W-20 over the long term would be if it was a top-shelf ester-based synthetic produced by specialist racing lube manufacturers such as Neo Synthetic Oil. With ordinary synthetic oil I would want 5W-30 at a minimum.

Now that I know you've had your car such a short time I'm getting very suspicious. Is there any sign of previous modifications at all? The scenario that pops into my head is that the previous owner was running a Nitrous setup, hurt the engine while using it, and then stripped the mods off and sold the car before the engine failed completely. The engine in your car wouldn't necessarily have flunked a compression check in this scenario. Passing a compression test just means the piston rings weren't damaged or excessively worn. An engine can make great compression even with a dying rod-bearing.

Alternatively, the previous owner could have simply run it low on oil, got the oil contaminated somehow, or otherwise did something bone-headed to it.

The crystal-clear oil that confused your mechanic increases my suspicions of something nefarious and/or stupid. I've never seen a completely clear synthetic motor oil. The only oil I know of that sounds like that is Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer, a product that is meant to be added to ordinary synthetic or conventional motor oil rather than used on its own.

One thing that Lucas Oil Stabilizer is really good at is making damaged engines run smooth for a little while. I've seen badly wounded motors crank out a couple extra thousand miles before exploding thanks to Lucas Oil Stabilizer. If I had a car with a damaged engine that I was trying to sell that's exactly what I'd do. I would fill the oil sump with %100 Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer and hope the buyer doesn't test-drive the car too hard.

Which brings me to my last point: you committed a mortal sin by not red-lining the car before you paid money for it. Always, always thoroughly test-drive any car you are looking to buy, especially a performance car. Run it all the way up to redline in multiple gears. Run it in reverse on full steering lock, run it over some bumpy road, etc. If the seller has a problem with you testing the car in this way then tell them to drive it that way themselves while you ride shotgun. If they refuse then nine times out of ten they're trying to hide something.

Sorry you got shafted so hard on your newly acquired Genesis Coupe. Best of luck getting it up and running again!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ahhhhh, now it all makes sense. When you said "my genesis threw a rod" in your first post I made the assumption you'd had the car for most or all of its life when in fact you acquired it very recently.

Having receipts from dealer service is a plus, but that means they would have been using the cheapest synthetic oil that met the minimum requirements for the OEM spec. Also, they almost certainly would have been using the oil viscocity spec listed on the oil cap: 5W-20.

5W-20 is on the thin side for the 3.8 V6 and is specified by Hyundai in order to help the car get a better EPA fuel economy rating, not to help it have better durability.

Our BK1 V6 in Project Hoondy has run best on high-quality 5W-30 and 5W-40 synthetic motor oils. Changing oil weights on this platform is no big deal, the Genesis Coupe service manual even includes the following chart showing temperature range reccomendations for oil weights up to 20W-50!



There's no need to go super-high viscosity, but 5W-20 is thinner than is ideal for maximum durability. The only way I'd be comfortable running something as thin as 5W-20 over the long term would be if it was a top-shelf ester-based synthetic produced by specialist racing lube manufacturers such as Neo Synthetic Oil. With ordinary synthetic oil I would want 5W-30 at a minimum.

Now that I know you've had your car such a short time I'm getting very suspicious. Is there any sign of previous modifications at all? The scenario that pops into my head is that the previous owner was running a Nitrous setup, hurt the engine while using it, and then stripped the mods off and sold the car before the engine failed completely. The engine in your car wouldn't necessarily have failed a compression check in this scenario. That just means the piston rings weren't damaged or excessively worn. An engine can make great compression even with a dying rod-bearing.

Alternatively, the previous owner could have simply run it low on oil, got the oil contaminated somehow, or otherwise did something bone-headed to it.

The crystal-clear oil that confused your mechanic increases my suspicions of something nefarious and/or stupid. I've never seen a completely clear synthetic motor oil. The only oil I know of that sounds like that is Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer, a product that is meant to be added to ordinary synthetic or conventional motor oil rather than used on its own.

One thing that Lucas Oil Stabilizer is really good at is making damaged engines run smooth for a little while. I've seen badly wounded motors crank out a couple extra thousand miles before exploding thanks to Lucas Oil Stabilizer. If I had a car with a damaged engine that I was trying to sell, I would fill the oil sump with %100 Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer and hope the buyer doesn't test-drive the car too hard.

Which brings me to my last point: you committed a mortal sin by not red-lining the car before you paid money for it. Always, always thoroughly test any car you are looking to buy. Run it all the way up to redline in multiple gears. Run it in reverse on full steering lock, run it over some bumpy road, etc. If the seller has a problem with you testing the car in this way then tell them to drive it that way themselves while you ride shotgun. If they refuse then nine times out of ten they're trying to hide something.

Sorry you got shafted so hard on your newly acquired Genesis Coupe. Best of luck getting it up and running again!
Yah i've barely driven it. I'm 16 and bought it on my birthday as my first car, but i had been looking for cars for a while and this one came up right around the right time as not a lot of 3.8 manuals were being sold, - the ones that were were all pretty shady:/ I doubt or really hope the previous owner wasn't running nitrous, she was (and i know ill get ripped on for being to trusting and not beware enough) a young 25 year old lady who bought it new and drove it on the highway - she sold it saying the only aftermarket pieces were the cabin lights :"). I did get a full inspection and compression test done, and everything was fine, but for next time should i be getting the ecu checked to see if she had removed any mods even something as much as an intake?

OIL- thanks for all the advice on the oil, would you recommend using 2 different types- one for winter (alberta so averages around -15) and one for summer (~+15 °C)? And i realize how bad that sounded now but the oil wasn't clear as in no colour- just clear as in not dirty- had the normal colour synth oil should have.

Also, when i test drove the car, i drove it around a parking lot, city, as well as highway, she drove it on the highway as well, and SHE redlined it- twice...

What's your opinion on putting in aftermarket rods? Definitely not planning on running nitrous, and doubt i'd ever put a turbo in it:") so besides a new exhaust an intake and maybe some headers?? Possibly new fuel pumps as well??

Thanks so much for the quick replies it's really great to have help with this!!!!!!!
 

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And i realize how bad that sounded now but the oil wasn't clear as in no colour- just clear as in not dirty- had the normal colour synth oil should have.
Ok, that's a lot less concerning.

everything was fine, but for next time should i be getting the ecu checked to see if she had removed any mods even something as much as an intake?
Checking the ECU is a good idea, but ECU codes can be cleared pretty easily so it won't necessarily help you identify a shady seller.

Also, when i test drove the car, i drove it around a parking lot, city, as well as highway, she drove it on the highway as well, and SHE redlined it- twice...
Damn. I stand corrected, you have not sinned at all. Sounds like it was a decent car from a decent owner and you were pretty diligent in inspecting and test-driving. I doubt you could have done much more to uncover the engine problem before you bought the car. You may just be the victim of some profoundly bad luck. I still personally suspect that engine maintenance was somehow bungled by the first owner (or more likely the dealer that serviced the car) which caused the underlying issue, but I suppose it doesn't matter too much at this point.

would you recommend using 2 different types- one for winter (alberta so averages around -15) and one for summer (~+15 °C)?
Absolutely not. This is 2017, modern engine oils have more than enough viscosity index to deal with the temperature extremes of Alberta, or about anywhere else in the world. Just make sure you run a good quality synthetic 5W oil like 5W-30 or 5W-40. Those weights will be plenty thin enough for cold starts in low temperatures while still being tough in hot weather.

Modern oil is amazing like that. The engine oil blend we use in Project Hoondy is good for more than 20,000 miles and works perfectly from sub-zero to scorching hot ambient temperatures. We change it once a year in the summer and completely ignore the number of miles we put on each oil change since we'll never drive the car far enough in a year to wear out the oil.

What's your opinion on putting in aftermarket rods? Definitely not planning on running nitrous, and doubt i'd ever put a turbo in it:")
Waste of money. If you aren't running big forced induction or nitrous then stock bottom-end internals are more than strong enough. A bottom-end upgrade I would recommend is for you to get a fresh set of rod/crank bearings and send them off for WPC treatment.

WPC is a high-tech metal improvement process that creates a super-tough, super-slippery "skin" on the surface of metal parts. WPC-treated components have far greater fatigue strength and a far lower coefficient of friction than un-treated parts. I wrote all about WPC for an article on Project Hoondy's differential upgrade over on Opposite Lock:

You spent HOW much on a diff?

Just to give you an idea of how drastically WPC can improve metal parts, here's the spacer rings out of Project Hoondy's Cusco RS differential. The original, un-treated rings are on top and the finished, WPC-treated rings are on the bottom:



If you're going to the trouble of re-building an engine then you should spend the extra time and money to apply WPC treatment to as many components as you can. It works best on parts that are subjected to a lot of sliding forces like crank/rod bearings, piston rings, oil pump internals, valve stems, and camshafts. It is also useful for increasing the fatigue strength of parts like connecting rods and valve springs. WPC is so good that in some cases I would prefer OEM parts with WPC treatment over more expensive after-market parts without treatment.

so besides a new exhaust an intake and maybe some headers?? Possibly new fuel pumps as well??
No reason to upgrade the fuel pump. You could replace it with a new OEM pump since it has a lot of miles on it, but I wouldn't worry about it much more than that.

Headers are pretty expensive for how little power they make. You're better off spending that money on chassis/driveline upgrades. Put it this way, an $800 final drive swap (which I'll get to in a minute) would destroy the acceleration gains of a $1600 set of headers. The only reason to do headers is if you've already checked lots of other mods off the list. You don't even need headers to get great exhaust sound, the Genesis Coupe V6 can sound killer with stock headers and a simple catback exhaust kit. Project Hoondy has stock headers and all four catalytic converters still installed and, in my humble opinion, is one of the better-sounding GenCoupes out there:


In general, power mods are the last thing that the Genesis Coupe V6 needs. The chassis struggles to deal with even stock power-output from the V6. The engine, transmission, and differential mounts are all woefully inadequate for performance driving. They should all be upgraded before you even think about adding extra power. The DMF has got to go and the two-piece driveshaft is also a weak point. These cars are pretty useless with an open diff as well, so unless you have a track pack car you should look into a differential upgrade.

A really cool way to do that would be to get a used differential housing off of a 2010-2012 Genesis Coupe V6 Track Pack with an automatic transmission. That particular differential housing will bolt straight on to your car. It has a Torsen LSD and 3.93 final drive gears. Currently your car has much taller 3.53 final drive gears. Swapping to the 3.93 will drastically increase your car's acceleration without putting added strain on the drivetrain like you get with power mods.

Oh, and change out your transmission oil! The factory spec is wrong, even after the modified service bulletin went out. You should be using AC Delco 10-4014 Friction Modified Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid or something extremely similar:



There are a few other options that also work very nicely, but AC Delco 10-4014 has long been renowned as a solution for problematic ZF manual transmissions. Since the Genesis Coupe manual trans is a blatant copy of a ZF design the AC Delco works great in it as well. We add four ounces of Oil Extreme Concentrate (Calcium Petroleum Sulfonate) to two quarts of AC Delco 10-4014 for use in Project Hoondy's manual transmission. Calcium Petroleum Sulfonate is great for reducing wear and smoothing out the synchro action in manual transmissions, especially fussy ones like the GenCoupe's.

Keep up your research! The Genesis Coupe is a good platform and can be a ridiculous amount of fun with the right tweaks. Happy tuning!
 

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Yeah...used car dealers put cheap oil in their vehicles prior to selling. I took mine for a test drive and redlined it a few times...bought it and put Amsoil in it asap. I run 5/20 in it but change it every 6000 miles at the latest. If Amsoil is not available...then it's Royal purple etc. I believe in synthetics all the way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Alright Project Hoondy, first of all, thank you SOOO much for all of the tips and advice, I REALLY appreciate it, especially being so amateur to the community and a 16 year old with limited knowledge of ownership of a genesis coupe.

Second, WOW that exhaust sounds nice, those notes off the pulls were like music- could tell right away it was custom! Definitely one of the best genesis coupe sounds I've heard yet.

Now, for the new engine... I've called around a few recommended in province places and right now the best deal is a 55,000 km with 3 months warranty for 2900. Fair?? Any tips for verifying its good (the engine) before buying it? Engine inspection or anything I should ask for? Anyone in Canada have recommendations for where to purchase?

Once I get it installed, I will definitely start running 5W-30 or 40 :)

About the WPC treating. REALLY like that idea, and read your article (pretty convincing article) on it and I think it sounds like a great idea! Any idea where I would ship them to since I'm in Canada? If not no worries I'll find a place:). So idealy WPC the crank/rod bearings, piston rings, oil pump internals, valve stems, camshafts, rods, and valve springs??

Thanks again so so much!!!!!
 

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All those parts would be great to WPC, but it could get a little expensive. The most important parts are crank/rod bearings. Oil pump internals and piston rings would be very nice to do as well. I wouldn't bother doing the cams, valve stems, or springs unless I was looking to modify the engine for drastically increased RPMs. Stripping down the cylinder head to get at all those parts would be a lot of work. Better to just leave the heads assembled and only treat the easier-to-remove bottom-end components.

As far as shipping, there's only one WPC facility on this continent which is located in Torrance, California. If you have any questions about packing, shipping, pricing or what have you then just contact my buddy Izumi Ogawa at [email protected]. You can also get a price estimate by filling out this form:

WPC Treatment - Quotation

The deal on your 55k engine sounds pretty solid. Pretty hard to check an engine like that without running it. You could try sticking a bore-scope in the intake tracks and spark plug holes, but that's about it. With a 3 month warranty you probably can't go too wrong. Just make sure you get the engine put together and drive the piss out of it before your 3 months are up. If it's gonna fail it should fail pretty quickly.

Happy tuning!
 
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