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Discussion Starter #1
My 2013 3.8L R-Spec is doing fine.

But what are we to do when it's time for a new (or at least, newish) car?

I want a RWD or AWD 2-door with a MANUAL transmission.

C'mon Hyundai/Kia. They make about a dozen cars and NONE of them are what I describe above.

There is so little competition in this segment.

I just don't know what I'd buy should some idiot (hopefully not me!) wreck my car. (Or better yet, I wear the car out)

Ideas?
 

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Advenio Pariter
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FR-S / BRZ
Miata / Fiata (I happen to like them)
Mustang
Camaro
Focus RS (AWD). Too many doors...

Anybody else? That tiny list is all I can think of. I know a lot of people do not like Miata's and the Camaro is a tank.
 

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FRS/BRZ - boxer motor, meh...pass
Camaro - blech (regardless of the midel)
'Stang - I suppose if price were not an issue and went with a Super Snake

The new RS-5 is a pure bada$$ (the 2018 RS-3 is a little beast too but its a 4 door).

Toyota should be coming out with the new Supra some time next year.

The GT-R if price is no object.

Nissan should be set to come out with a new Z car in a year or 2 (code name Z35). Word is it will be a 475hp RWD.
 

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My dealer general sales manager said today that Hyundai’s newest coupe will be in the Genesis brand and be labeled a G60. Unfortunately, there is no ETA, and I fully expect two SUVs to hit before any coupe. And those haven’t hit the market yet, and won’t likely before 2020.
 

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New Supra / Z4 will not be manual according to recent publications.

not mentioned yet -
Jag F-Type S
Porsche Boxster, Cayman, Carerra, etc
Audi R8
BMW M4
VW Golf R
Corvette Z06
Mini Cooper S
 

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If they (Hyundai/Genesis) ever do come out with the coupe again, it is supposed to be more of a luxury coupe than a strret beast. At the price point it will most likely carry, probably be a tough sell for them
 

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New Supra / Z4 will not be manual according to recent publications.

not mentioned yet -
Jag F-Type S
Porsche Boxster, Cayman, Carerra, etc
Audi R8
BMW M4
VW Golf R
Corvette Z06
Mini Cooper S
I was trying to keep below $100k.

You do realize there is only one or maybe 2 more model years left for the R8. It is being discontinued.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks for the replies.

The FRS/BRZ, Miata/Fiata, Mini Cooper, Golf R are a little small and underpowered for my Mad Max commute. I see the small cars get bullied. Crash resistance is important. Would like to limit my odds of getting hurt/killed.

Camaro - GM quality (not good) and I've sat in one. Space is wasted in the cabin and trunk and you-can't-see-out! It's like being in the cramped interior of a tank with the same visibility. Or you can pretend your in a hard top Miata. The magic happens when you get out and realize you were in a nearly 4000 lb car the whole time! The deal breaker is I can't see out of it well enough. Nor do I care for it's appearance.

Focus RS - Too many doors. Can't deal with a 4 cyl. Just doesn't make the right sounds to please my soul. Fuel tank too small. (seriously, I'd have to get gas twice a week! Stupid 14 gal tank)

Mustang - Sigh. I dunno. Not crazy about the looks. Ride/handling is kinda soft (as in floaty) unless you have the new performance II pack or whatever it's called. GT's are expensive. Get the good suspension and brakes and your over 40K. Chinese transmission.
I guess it's a possibility. Plenty of used ones.

Used Corvette - GM quality (not good). Not really a "corvette guy" if you know what I mean. It has a status to it I don't want. It's a possibility. Plenty of used ones in great shape.

Challenger - Chrysler/Dodge/Fiat quality (Not good) BIG. Good for crashing, not being pushed around, cruising. Tight fit in the garage and finding parking spaces. Never felt the clutch in one. Can't be harder than my Genesis because I do end up stop-and-go often. Though big, they can be quick, can hold a turn, (not transition well, though), brake, have a big gas tank, are RWD and manual trans. Sound and look good, too. It's a possibility.

370z - Needs a redesign! Quality isn't great on the current ones. Noisy interior, engine doesn't sound good, overpriced IMO.

Jags, Porshe's, BMW's, etc are too expensive to buy / maintain. This is my daily commuter. Stop and go and 80 mph cruising. It WILL get beat up from flying debris, construction, bad roads, etc.

One benefit to the common, not-very-special cars (Mustang GT, Camaro SS, Challenger RT) is that I won't be mad when it gets minor damage daily or if it gets destroyed. No tears. I'm not sure they are worth their price bought new. I'd want a good, very low mileage one with lots of factory warranty left.

So I guess that is my short list.

Used Corvette
New/used Mustang GT
New/used Challenger RT or Scat pack (what a stupid name!)
Another used Genesis Coupe R-spec or Ultimate if I could fine a low-mile one. (not likely at all)
 

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In Charge of Snacks
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BMW 2 series is the only real usable mechanical match. And it's quite a bit more money. 6cyl, manual option, entry level positioning, 6speed/rwd.

The Camaro is a fantastic car, but you can't see out of it and it's certainly not a graceful GT.

The Mustang also suffers in the grace department, but happens to also drive like a river barge until you spring for upmarket trims.

FRS/BRZ/GT86 are kinda soulless once you put good tires on them. Also they have no guts at all.

Can't see out of a 370Z, either. Also, I can't put my finger on it, but something just seems dead about that car.

And yes, it does seem as though automatic transmission company Toyota will build another beige refinement monster in Supra form. But maybe it will be more LFA than RC-Fsport

Yeah, that about wraps it up... Hardtop, manual, entry-ish level, rwd/awd, sporty coupes. Not a lot of brightside there. This would definitely be a great segment to dominate for Hyundai's "N" badging. They did say they were working on an "N" halo coupe. But I've learned not to trust Hyundai's bold future product statements as much as their ability to change course in the interests of risk avoidance. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone with balls stepping up to the plate to serve the sensibly priced sports coupe market. It's all on Hyundai and Nissan, now. Maybe Honda and Mazda have something on the back burner? Sure makes me wish for the days of Datsun, MG, and Triumph to make a resurgence...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I was trying to keep below $100k.

You do realize there is only one or maybe 2 more model years left for the R8. It is being discontinued.
Car gets driven on bad roads, roads under construction, stop and go, three lanes at 80 mph through sweeping turns, behind rock trucks, through torrential downpours, fire smoke/ash, etc. Not all at the same time but often a combination.

I can't see spending more than the low $40K's. Residual value is important, too. Even though when the car is sold (should it survive) it will have miles and paint/plastic/metal damage.
 

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In Charge of Snacks
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BMW USA build code dpaxtp5g
basic m240i with a manual. $46k

Bummer because of the turbo complication(unless you're into that :p ) and because it cannot be optioned with an LSD. Otherwise, a car like this should come off lease pretty cheap in 3 years and be a swift little bugger. Aftermarket will totally solve the LSD problem, too. They also sell it for $5k less with a 4cyl turbo. Still peppy. Still a lease churner.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
BMW 2 series is the only real usable mechanical match. And it's quite a bit more money. 6cyl, manual option, entry level positioning, 6speed/rwd.

The Camaro is a fantastic car, but you can't see out of it and it's certainly not a graceful GT.

The Mustang also suffers in the grace department, but happens to also drive like a river barge until you spring for upmarket trims.

FRS/BRZ/GT86 are kinda soulless once you put good tires on them. Also they have no guts at all.

Can't see out of a 370Z, either. Also, I can't put my finger on it, but something just seems dead about that car.

And yes, it does seem as though automatic transmission company Toyota will build another beige refinement monster in Supra form. But maybe it will be more LFA than RC-Fsport

Yeah, that about wraps it up... Hardtop, manual, entry-ish level, rwd/awd, sporty coupes. Not a lot of brightside there. This would definitely be a great segment to dominate for Hyundai's "N" badging. They did say they were working on an "N" halo coupe. But I've learned not to trust Hyundai's bold future product statements as much as their ability to change course in the interests of risk avoidance. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone with balls stepping up to the plate to serve the sensibly priced sports coupe market. It's all on Hyundai and Nissan, now. Maybe Honda and Mazda have something on the back burner? Sure makes me wish for the days of Datsun, MG, and Triumph to make a resurgence...
How much are the 2-series of which you speak? I'll bet $60K. Probably hold their value well, though.

The Mustang needs the best suspension they offer, as you say. It honestly has more HP than it needs. I'd rather it had 75 less HP and 50 lb ft more torque at 3K rpm. And cost less. Between that and it's general quality and appearance I'd feel like I'm "settling" but over-paying.

I will drive a manual until I'm not medically capable or dead. Auto's are boring.

The Genesis Coupe had the formula, although it could have been a little lighter, but otherwise:

-Medium-size (3450lbs)
-Decent, unique styling
-Pleasant and functional interior space (Leather, soft touches, supportive seats, good gauges)
-Decent power (345 hp) (and decent sounding engine)
-Decent handling
-Lowish price (28-34K)
-Good quality
-RWD
-Manual trans option (although not a particularly great shifter/clutch)
-Good warrany

It doesn't seem like I'm asking for much. Yet, it seems I (we) are.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
BMW USA build code dpaxtp5g
basic m240i with a manual. $46k

Bummer because of the turbo complication(unless you're into that :p ) and because it cannot be optioned with an LSD. Otherwise, a car like this should come off lease pretty cheap in 3 years and be a swift little bugger. Aftermarket will totally solve the LSD problem, too. They also sell it for $5k less with a 4cyl turbo. Still peppy. Still a lease churner.
Turbo's are fine. On a six or eight cylinder.

The Turbo 4's are often matched with a small four and still underpowered. Even with a 2.0L+ engine they have strange, uneven power delivery, and of course do not sound "good". That needs to be fixed...somehow.

I'll look into the BMW. I would prefer a car built by the Japanese or Koreans, though, as first choices.

LSD is a must. I've driven the "electronic" LSD's. I think they stink. FWD and RWD.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
BMW USA build code dpaxtp5g
basic m240i with a manual. $46k

Bummer because of the turbo complication(unless you're into that :p ) and because it cannot be optioned with an LSD. Otherwise, a car like this should come off lease pretty cheap in 3 years and be a swift little bugger. Aftermarket will totally solve the LSD problem, too. They also sell it for $5k less with a 4cyl turbo. Still peppy. Still a lease churner.
Not too bad! I checked it out.

Doesn't attract much attention, (Pretty boring, actually) I can get a manual with either engine, a "track pack", and I don't have to buy tons of electric "infotainment" and luxuries I don't want.

More research is needed but it adds to my short list, thanks!
 

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Trust me, I'm no fan of Munich's snobby ways. And their turbo six's sound worse than their turbo four's, but this is a good car(new) otherwise and has a relatively simple mechanical layout similar to the genesis. I present it due to its general similarities on paper. It's also far more balanced and refined than a Gen dynamically. Of course I'm certain that comes at the cost of character.

I like the Gen because it's an unforgiving brute with potential in skilled hands. It definitely feels more alive to me than its faster/better competition. Since it's not a racecar, I'm fine with its shortcomings. The only scenario I see forcing replacement is a total collision. Otherwise I have no plans to part ways. I might add, I've never driven a car who's sound I like better than mine. The package is somehow greater than the sum of its characteristics. Now, if I could just get a longer 6th gear...
 

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omphaloskeptic
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My Gen is pretty fresh, but I always daydream about what will be next!

I was looking at used 911s before puling the trigger on my Coupe. The cars are quite similar on paper (except for where the engine goes... and cost of course). I paid less than half of what a decent 911 would have cost and got a brand new car w/ good warranty, got all the latest gismos (for the time), much lower maintenance, much lower insurance, etc.

I had high hopes for the Supra, but the more I see of it, the less excited I am... Pretty much agree with you all on the others (previous Mustang owner).

Hopefully when my Gen is done, there will be something new on the market (or I'll be able to afford that 911 :wtc:).
 

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In Charge of Snacks
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My Gen is pretty fresh, but I always daydream about what will be next!

I was looking at used 911s before puling the trigger on my Coupe. The cars are quite similar on paper (except for where the engine goes... and cost of course). I paid less than half of what a decent 911 would have cost and got a brand new car w/ good warranty, got all the latest gismos (for the time), much lower maintenance, much lower insurance, etc.

I had high hopes for the Supra, but the more I see of it, the less excited I am... Pretty much agree with you all on the others (previous Mustang owner).

Hopefully when my Gen is done, there will be something new on the market (or I'll be able to afford that 911 :wtc:).
You keep the rent low in that Van of yours and you'll be able to buy a 996 in no time! LOL, where is this river of yours, anyway? Last I checked all our watercourses were dry as bone.

Speaking of Porsches, my gramps picked up a 991.1 six speed new a couple years back. He loves it, but while I appreciate it's precision, I don't actually like driving it much. I'm a big dude and I find it uncomfortable. Especially as the footwells point toward the center a bit. Also, the valved gimmicketry in the intake and exhaust noises is a bit tiresome. The car is capable, but artificial. It just doesn't seem to have any drama at reasonable speeds. Maybe a Targa would have been a better choice there. IDK. But I remember when I first stuck Pilot SuperSports on my car. Instantly killed half the fun. If you make a car too capable, you kinda ruin it for day to day use.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The BMW 240 does meet the criteria, but it is a bit expensive.

Also, Hyundai has spoiled me with their warranty. And finally, I hate to spend much money on a nice car just to see it get damaged nearly every day during my commute.

That's a job more deserving of a Mustang or Chrysler product, hehe.
 

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Mustang GT. Since you want a manual no need to pay for a 18+ like most are doing just to get the awesome new 10AT auto, so just get a 15-16 GT for low-mid $20's and throw a few g's at it for boltons/tune and suspension/wheel goodies. Or even a 11-14 if you want to spend less on the actual car and go even crazier with mods. The Coyote 5.0 will take boost and put out 600whp without even straining it.

Personally I'm holding out for a 18+ 10AT Mustang GT, as my current car makes me hate manuals.
 
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