REFLASH ??- Reverting back to EXACT stock tune

21319 Views 106 Replies 31 Participants Last post by phase autos, Feb 17, 2011

11mbcoupe

Discussion Starter · Jan 18, 2011

ok here is my question. In the mustang world where i am previously from, when one buys a handheld programmer the factory backup tune is loaded onto the device as soon as it is plugged in.

Correct me if i am wrong but with the poweraxel handheld module, it is loaded with a "stock-ish" tune, meaning it has all the stock parameters but does not have the actual stock original backup that includes a xxxx.xxxx version number that is individual to that car when it was tuned from the factory.

What i would like to see (might be available now and i just didnt know it) is a handheld reflash module, that loads your EXACT stock tune including version number, etc. etc as a backup onto the module.

The reason i would like to see this is obviously making it more difficult for the dealer to determine whether the vehicle has been reflashed or not. NOW I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY (TRUST ME), BUT WHAT I DO NOT WANT TO HAPPEN IS THIS: I BUY THE REFLASH, THEN A WEEK LATER I HAVE SOME RANDOM PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING THAT CHANCES ARE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REFLASH BEING INSTALLED. I REFLASH THE CAR BACK TO "STOCK-ISH" WITH WHAT THE MODULE COMES WITH, TAKE IT TO THE DEALER, BUT SINCE THE VERSION NUMBER DOESNT MATCH UP WITH WHAT IT SHOULD BE, THE DEALER DETERMINES I HAVE REFLASHED MY ECU AND DENYS MY WARRANTY CLAIM EVEN IF IT MIGHT NOT BE DIRECTLY RELATED.

Now i also understand the problem has to be directly related to the mod to have my warranty claim denied, but i REALLYYY dont want to have to go through the trouble of arguing with a dealer if this was to happen.

So is this already available? Or is anyone trying to develop this? what gives

Thanks for the help!

1 - 20 of 107 Posts

CrookedH

· #2 · Jan 18, 2011

Correct. PowerX module doesn't back up your existing rom, it just has a stock rom in it. AFAIK SFR is the only one who backs up your OEM rom in case you need it. TurboXS may as well, not sure though.

Most likely they'll never even look at the ECU unless you go in for a blown engine.

On another note, check out the site linked in my sig. With that setup you'd be able to download your EXACT OEM ROM and back it up. You would also be able to choose a tuner of your choice and not be limited to a select few authorized shops. It's just not ready yet

Bobaguy

· #3 · Jan 18, 2011

Hyundai techs and their head honchos themselves have admitted to not being able to detect ECU flashes, nor have a flash counter. People have talked about this already. Trust me on this forum. We're VERY thorough. lol.

Welcome to the forum.

Bobaguy

· #4 · Jan 18, 2011

-_-" friggin forum Ninja Gary I swear...

CrookedH

· #5 · Jan 18, 2011

Bobaguy said:
-_-" friggin forum Ninja Gary I swear...

Pretty sneaky for a giant

[email protected]

· #6 · Jan 18, 2011

When we ship a PA module, it ships with the OEM ROM. Its not the "exact" program that ships with you car, but it is the exact same as the factory provides.

So its not a "stockish" rom, it is the stock rom.

BadBoyBill

· #7 · Jan 18, 2011

[email protected] said:
When we ship a PA module, it ships with the OEM ROM. Its not the "exact" program that ships with you car, but it is the exact same as the factory provides.

So its not a "stockish" rom, it is the stock rom.

How about the ROM ID? Is the ROM ID the original one that came with the car, or does the entire ROM get re-written?

Snoopy0812

· #8 · Jan 18, 2011

Do you guys take into account for the latest update from Hyundai or just when the coupe was first released.

Bobaguy

· #9 · Jan 18, 2011

Poweraxel takes into account all current TSBs before sending out Modules.

BadBoyBill

· #10 · Jan 18, 2011

Bobaguy said:
Poweraxel takes into account all current TSBs before sending out Modules.

I would really like to see proof of this one, not to mention if you took the car to
the dealer and they used the Hyundai ECU updater which would be updating the
stock ROM, then you reflash with your PA device after you leave the dealer, you
would have just killed the TSB update if one was done.

If you ask me the PA device should of been designed to pull the stock ROM off
of your car and store it on a built in memory chip for flashing back to stock, not
using a standard ROM.. just my 2 cents

JoelB

· #11 · Jan 19, 2011 (Edited)

I have the same concerns.
1- This is not the backup of my ECU
2- If I must go back to the stock and make a update from Hyundai, this update does not exist in the "stock" rom supplied.

Why do we want to go back to stock?
To return to the dealer.
To make tests in case of problems.

EDIT: In fact, i'm still waiting something as the Cobb AccessPort... Do I dream?

[email protected]

· #12 · Jan 19, 2011

BadBoyBill said:
How about the ROM ID? Is the ROM ID the original one that came with the car, or does the entire ROM get re-written?

We very rapidly approaching the limit of my knowledge on the subject, further clarification would have to come from Power Axel directly.

However, I do believe (not 100% certain) that the ROM ID of the ecu stays with the ecu regardless of what is flashed onto it. When I need to investigate weather or not our programming is compatible with non US ecu's I have to obtain the ROM ID of the ecu in question. I believe its more of a compatibility concern and its not wiped out by downloading a new flash.

We don't own a hyundai scan tool in house (nor do I know how one works) but I have had many customers take their cars in for service after installing our "stock" map. Never have I had one instance of a dealer suspecting anything or refusing service.

Take it for what its worth, an opinion and experience, but I wouldn't be too concerned.

Predat0r

· #13 · Jan 19, 2011

The module that PA uses has been used for years in Tiburons, etc. It doesnt save the ROM of the car, it just sends a stock ROM that is very similar or is supposed to be the same that comes with your car. Why you think PA asks for ROMID and other info before sending you the unit?

In my case I decided to go with the SFR reflash, in the case of SFR, Jay always saves and keeps the exact ROM that came with your car, he just modifies it and sends the same ROM but modified. If you want to return to stock, he sends your original ROM. So thats another difference between the two reflashes. If you use a PA module your original ROM is lost forever. But thats not exactly a bad thing. Because it will have a similar ROM and shouldnt cause any problem. But of course, Hyundai has made several updates to their ROM code. But that shouldnt affect you in any way.

So, you are asking if anyone can notice the car was reflashed before? With PA, YES! With SFR, NO! But I doubt someone at a dealership is smart enough to figure it out.

See less See more

netstat

· #14 · Jan 19, 2011

Predat0r said:
The module that PA uses has been used for years in Tiburons, etc. It doesnt save the ROM of the car, it just sends a stock ROM that is very similar or is supposed to be the same that comes with your car. Why you think PA asks for ROMID and other info before sending you the unit?

In my case I decided to go with the SFR reflash, in the case of SFR, Jay always saves and keeps the exact ROM that came with your car, he just modifies it and sends the same ROM but modified. If you want to return to stock, he sends your original ROM. So thats another difference between the two reflashes. If you use a PA module your original ROM is lost forever. But thats not exactly a bad thing. Because it will have a similar ROM and shouldnt cause any problem. But of course, Hyundai has made several updates to their ROM code. But that shouldnt affect you in any way.

So, you are asking if anyone can notice the car was reflashed before? With PA, YES! With SFR, NO! But I doubt someone at a dealership is smart enough to figure it out.

I think PA ask for the ROM ID because with that they can attach the device to your ECU...and with that you cant use the device on ther car because it have another ROM ID...Its just a guess....

Snoopy0812

· #15 · Jan 19, 2011

Yeah PA doesn't want people wandering around with their flash tool doing freebies or personal profiteering.

Your ROM code is fairly easy to access from what I understand, so it would just take a mechanic looking for a flash to spot one.

Kid

· #16 · Jan 19, 2011

CrookedH said:
Most likely they'll never even look at the ECU unless you go in for a blown engine.

They didn't check mine.:ugh:

11mbcoupe

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 19, 2011

BadBoyBill said:
I would really like to see proof of this one, not to mention if you took the car to
the dealer and they used the Hyundai ECU updater which would be updating the
stock ROM, then you reflash with your PA device after you leave the dealer, you
would have just killed the TSB update if one was done.

If you ask me the PA device should of been designed to pull the stock ROM off
of your car and store it on a built in memory chip for flashing back to stock, not
using a standard ROM.. just my 2 cents

X2. This is what all previous handheld tuners i have experience with do. That way there is ZERO chance of the dealer detecting a reflash. Might not be a HUGE deal but it would sure give me a little more peace of mind.

BadBoyBill

· #18 · Jan 19, 2011

[email protected] said:
We very rapidly approaching the limit of my knowledge on the subject, further clarification would have to come from Power Axel directly.

However, I do believe (not 100% certain) that the ROM ID of the ecu stays with the ecu regardless of what is flashed onto it. When I need to investigate weather or not our programming is compatible with non US ecu's I have to obtain the ROM ID of the ecu in question. I believe its more of a compatibility concern and its not wiped out by downloading a new flash.

We don't own a hyundai scan tool in house (nor do I know how one works) but I have had many customers take their cars in for service after installing our "stock" map. Never have I had one instance of a dealer suspecting anything or refusing service.

Take it for what its worth, an opinion and experience, but I wouldn't be too concerned.

Thanks Tim! Honesty is always key and like i have said before i'm not against
the PA device, PA, or BR. I wish nothing but luck to all 3

netstat said:
I think PA ask for the ROM ID because with that they can attach the device to your ECU...and with that you cant use the device on ther car because it have another ROM ID...Its just a guess....

PA asks(if they do) for the ROM ID to either ensure compatibly or to secure to
only a single use, i'm sure a combination of the VIN and ROM ID are used to
ensure their product isn't copied.

Snoopy0812 said:
Yeah PA doesn't want people wandering around with their flash tool doing freebies or personal profiteering.

Your ROM code is fairly easy to access from what I understand, so it would just take a mechanic looking for a flash to spot one.

Yes just about any J2534 software can pull the ROM ID with a OBDII cable
hooked up to a laptop via USB

To the original poster, just wait until we have the stock ECU cracked and
you'll be able to save a copy of your ROM and can flash back to 100% stock
anytime you'd like and the dealer will have no clue, even the ROM flash
control number(counts how many times the ROM has been written to the ECU)
will be saved, so the dealer will have NO IDEA you ever flashed your car.

See less See more

[email protected]

· #19 · Jan 19, 2011

I am not really familiar with mentioned modules from certain company but if that module do not have an ability to pull and save the stock data but only has functions to write by
provided stock data (come from the provider in non-immobilizer/immobilizer)only, there is no way to return the ECU back to original including the ROM IDs.

We've so far found at least 7+ different versions of ECU types on 2010 and 5+ for 2011, and providing only options of immobilizer or non-immobilizer will just wipe out the original stock data.
Also we found that 2011 ECUs contain bit more aggressive and different data than 2010, so just using the same data on 2011 or versions that are differ from manufacture providing is bit of non sense and not really meant to be used on certain vehicles.

Basically dealers may not find out about the ECU reflash when it's back to stock but if they send that ECU to Hyundai corp or have technician to take a deep look at it with certain tools, they will find out right away of alteration unless it's fully turned back to stock or at least altered using its original versions like we do.

See less See more

BadBoyBill

· #20 · Jan 19, 2011

[email protected] said:
I am not really familiar with mentioned modules from certain company but if that module do not have an ability to pull and save the stock data but only has functions to write by
provided stock data (come from the provider in non-immobilizer/immobilizer)only, there is no way to return the ECU back to original including the ROM IDs.

We've so far found at least 7+ different versions of ECU types on 2010 and 5+ for 2011, and providing only options of immobilizer or non-immobilizer will just wipe out the original stock data.
Also we found that 2011 ECUs contain bit more aggressive and different data than 2010, so just using the same data on 2011 or versions that are differ from manufacture providing is bit of non sense and not really meant to be used on certain vehicles.

Basically dealers may not find out about the ECU reflash when it's back to stock but if they send that ECU to Hyundai corp or have technician to take a deep look at it with certain tools, they will find out right away of alteration unless it's fully turned back to stock or at least altered using its original versions like we do.

Thanks Jay!

This is pearls right here... The PA regime is going to be over soon :rofl:

1 - 20 of 107 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.