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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well I got some very interesting news today from my dealership, who has and has been testing my car and prepping for a tranny swap.

Apparently Hyundai Canada Corp. has stepped in and wants a full detailed report on the cause of the transmission failures. According to them, the Redline fluid fixed 80% of cases where there was gear grind, which is only 10% of the Coupes sold in Canada. In otherwords, only 2% of all Coupes sold in Canada. However they apparently feel that Automatic versions may be susceptible to the cause while showing no signs of error due to the lack of a shifter.

So, my Coupe will be used as a test platform inorder to get a deffinitive answer on how to stop the GC's from chewing through transmissions. So what is getting looked at?

1) Internal transmission design flaw - still a possibility.
2) Drive shaft and assembly - none found.
3) Shift linkage, shift lever and assembly - updated old shifter to new design, big difference for older GC's.
4) Flywheel, Clutch and Pressure plate - replaced with aftermarket, old flywheel was broken.
5) Rear drive system (transaxel and components) - to be inspected if further testing does not yield proper results.

All components will be tested against a brand new Genesis Coupe and referenced against specifications.

The dealership in charge of doing these tests have found new Coupes on their lot to have the same issue regardless of TSB's previously issued to resolve the problem, so they are taking it pretty seriously.

So Hyundai (Canada at least) is stepping up and finally saying that there is a problem that needs to be fixed.

I'll keep everyone up to date as details are released to me.

*Updates*


06/01/2011 - Was advised that they will be shimming the drive shaft, suspecting there might be an error in it's length. Once the shims are in they'll be testing that. I was also informed that 4 other dealerships are following the same testing and inspection schedule. My whole car is being torn apart, they're also inspecting the motor right now (it's in several pieces).

27/01/2011 - Parts arrived, drive shaft was shimmed. Made absolutely no difference.
They'll be going through the rest of their options with Hyundai later today.

03/02/2011 - Drive shaft was reshimmed (as per Hyundai's request) and there was no change. My Service advisor basically demanded a new transmission (has to get replaced anyways because it won't go into gear sometimes), while the transmission is out the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel will be inspected, regardless of fault however, Nate at MAPerformance has supplied me with a Clutchmaster Single-Mass Flywheel and FX200 (Stage 2) Clutch. If fault is found those parts however.. I will be selling off the new unused parts.
They will also be investigating the shifter and supporting linkage to see if that could be contributing to the issue.

23/02/2011 - Transmission was pulled today to prep for new one. They inspected the clutch and flywheel to find that there was a bit of excessive play in the dual-mass and the clutch and flywheel were not lined up perfectly.
After inspection mechanic feels confirmed in the assumption that the dual-mass is/was the problem.
Clutchmaster Clutch and Flywheel will be installed but I will be receiving a new clutch and flywheel under warranty which is for sale in the for sale section.
Everything should be back together tomorrow and tested and I will post results when I get them.

26/02/2010 - I got the car back yesterday, I'll be driving it through the break in period on the new transmission. Just to recap;

-NEW OEM transmission
-Tranny fluid as per NEW specifications
-Clutchmaster Single-Mass Flywheel (not lightweight)(2.0T Only)
-Clutchmaster FX200 Clutch kit w/ Pressure Plate
-Throwdown Stainless Steel Braided Clutchline

This is our test bench for determining if the problem is outside of the transmission or not. Note also, the engine has been inspected and no signs of damage, or misalignment was found.

Early impressions: The excessive and often unpredictable vibration in the shifter is no more. The single-mass allows a certain amount of engine vibration to transfer however this is typical with a single-mass. Since the vibrations being transfered increase smoothly with the RPM and are predictable we can assume this is normal opperation.

The transmission has yet to grind or prevent me from engaging or disengaging a gear. Shifts are still a bit rough and tight, but after the break in period I'll rereview that aspect. Engagements however are very positive with an almost latching feeling once the syncro's have finished their job. 1-2 is the tightest shift, 3-4 is easier with a positive thud sound of engagement, 5-6 is borderline flawless, with a smooth transfer from gear to gear. Downshifting is very similar to upshifting with the exception that first gear can be engaged without having to come to a complete stop.

Clutch grab has increased signifigantly. Clutchmaster really hit the nail on the head as you can still feather the clutch but once it's engaged it's a very reassuring solid feeling. Initially there was quite a bit of clutch chatter, however as the clutch breaks in it becomes less and less especially when you follow the break-in proceedure Clutchmaster outlined.

In neutral, the diet the single-mass induces to your driveline allows the engine to spin up very quickly, and when engaged in a gear the free'd up power is apparent. Clutchmasters heavier design allows a nice balance of weight savings on the drive line, as well as not comprimising low-end torque, of which I felt no loss.

The Stainless Steel clutchline was added to ensure a consistant clutch pedal feel, and it does just that. Colder weather makes your clutch feel a bit heavier however with the SS line even though it feels heavier it reacts the same as it does when it's warm. I'm looking forward to warmer weather to fully test the SS line's benefits.

Another note, during the break in proceedure Cruise Control will not be enabled, the engine will not be held at consistant RPM's for long periods of time and TCS will not be used in towns to be able to maintain correct RPM range for break in period.

Now that I've covered what the car feels like now, lets cover what we really want to know, what is our cause?
I've included a video of me inspecting the OEM Dual-Mass Flywheel after it was removed from my car. I think it's pretty self explainatory.


Please note, this is not a guarenteed fix, just a problem we've observed.
!!TESTING IS STILL ONGOING!!

Relevant mods to my GC;
- CAI
- Second Cat delete
- Injen intercooler piping
- SS braided clutch line

Waiting for VG from PowerAXEL to get telematry information during certain testing conditions in real-world instances.
 

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Take 'em Fei!
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How much are said parts?
 

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Hyundai Parts Employee
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I can get those parts to me by wednesday (technically I can have them tuesday, but I wont be working that day)

Also props on writing this up, Ill be passing it along to my superiors to read once you have something solid.

Also, stateside guys, what the OP is working on pertains to Hyundai Canada only. Odds of your dealer knowing anything about this is slim to none.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
How much are said parts?
I only know the price of one of the parts, since the other isn't available in Canada.
Rear Crossmember Bushing = ~$50 USD MSRP, or $86 CDN Cost.

So its the clutch and flywheel that is causing all these tranny problems?
At the moment it is looking like a strong possibility for those who have had the fluid change but are still experiencing grind and or shifting issues.
A Single-Mass is the best option, although Hyundai will most likely just replace the failed Dual-Mass with a new one. As is the case for me.
We were not expecting to find the OEM flywheel to be damaged that severly.

I can get those parts to me by wednesday (technically I can have them tuesday, but I wont be working that day)

Also props on writing this up, Ill be passing it along to my superiors to read once you have something solid.

Also, stateside guys, what the OP is working on pertains to Hyundai Canada only. Odds of your dealer knowing anything about this is slim to none.
This is correct. Hyundai Canada is seperate from Hyundai USA and they don't share projects underway and often even TSB's.






It's important to note that the reason a single-mass was installed was to determine if the OEM dual-mass was causing the problem. We were NOT aware of the condition of the OEM Flywheel when we opted to take this route. Most likely route Hyundai will take is to replace the faulty dual-mass with a non-faulty dual-mass. Don't expect Hyundai to start handing out or paying for Single-Mass or Lightweight flywheels.
 

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wonder if the results from this will be the same findings if they test the 3.8 trans too :p
I have had shifting problems with my 3.8. Basically under high RPM the clutch would give me a lot of resistance and the tranny would not come out or go into gear. It did not always occur though.

I took the car to the dealer with this complaint and although it took them close to a month to fix, it did get fixed. I do not have alot of the tranny problems that everyone was talks about.

The shifting issue was caused by a kinked clutch line which was replaced, along with the master and slave cylinder for the clutch. What is interesting is they had to drop the tranny to get the slave in they noticed excessive play in the flywheel and it was also replaced under warranty.

My tranny is fine now and I love driving my car.

Very interesting that they found this on Snoopy's car...
 

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Explosively Canadian
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So for those of us who don't have gear grind, but who do have really tough low-gear cold shifts and downshifts and 1st gear lockouts that require furious double/triple/quadruple/holys**tuple clutching, do you think they'd consider it part of the same issue if I pointed them at this thread? Seems to me that fewer symptoms of the problem is still probably the same problem... =)

I've been able to cope with the shift issues and haven't brought up any real problems with the dealer because the shift issues hadn't been very frequent or significant. However, they're starting to increase in frequency and likelihood; I believe you warned me about that in another thread...

I try to take a step back whenever someone posts an issue with their car so I don't go all hypochondriac (should that be hypoautomobiliac if something underneath the car is involved?), but it's seeming like their 10% quote is only referring to the percentage of owners who actually complain, which would actually represent a significant number because I doubt 100% of people who have problems actually complain about them.

I'm worried that my only option will be to throw in my own clutch and flywheel and void my transmission warranty, since odds seem good they wouldn't cover it anyway...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@AKGC
We'll be looking at 3.8's pending an available 3.8 for testing. We can't just take on off the lot since that would affect the dealership itself and Hyundai won't pay to offset that cost.
There are only minor differences between the two vehicles transmission wise, so hopefully what's good for the goose is also good for the gander. Although there are 2-3 times the complaints from 2.0T users than from 3.8 users.
Which it is interesting to note that they use a different flywheel.

@jtgibson
I'd follow this closely if I were you, because as a Canadian you might actually have a chance for a repair.
Your transmission might already be ruined. That's part of the problem we're looking at. What if all the transmissions are failing because of a part that was incorrectly designed, forgotten or has a tendancy to break? A larger concern from Hyundai is what if it's an outside problem that is slowly or even quickly destroying A/T transmissions and customers just are not aware of it?

As for complaint numbers, it also depends if the dealership reports the complaint. Which.. some don't.

You shifting issues might be a part of the fact that as a Canadian you're not eligible for Campaign T96, to know if you've had it applied though what is your build date?
 

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So this looks like it's specifically for the MTs flywheel and has nothing to do with the AT?
 

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yeah I assume that the main differences are the gear ratios.

I wonder if the bell housing bolt patterns are the same.
 

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Short Bus Driver
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Bump for this - this is the kind of relationship that car manufacturers should have with their customers. Really glad to hear about the progress - I find it interesting that the hard shifting/grinding problems are linked to the flywheel. It seems that it would be vastly preferable for the problem to be related to the clutch/flywheel to some internal defect in the gearbox.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So this looks like it's specifically for the MTs flywheel and has nothing to do with the AT?
There are more driveline tests to be performed (pending parts support from people here or if/when Hyundai allows us to test it under their dime). We'll see how this all affects the Autos.

yeah I assume that the main differences are the gear ratios.

I wonder if the bell housing bolt patterns are the same.
I believe someone here did a 3.8MT to 2.0MT swap.. it might have been MasterVu...

Bump for this - this is the kind of relationship that car manufacturers should have with their customers. Really glad to hear about the progress - I find it interesting that the hard shifting/grinding problems are linked to the flywheel. It seems that it would be vastly preferable for the problem to be related to the clutch/flywheel to some internal defect in the gearbox.
The flywheel appears to be the cause of the grinding and troubles with engaging gears. We're still working on why it's a bit stiff to get in and out of gears.
If we get ahold of the new shifter we'll be able to rule that out too.
 

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Thanks for posting this! What really annoys me is the inconsistent 1st gear lockout. Sometimes it will go slot in, no problem, other times I have to settle for 2nd gear. It takes awhile to accelerate from 3mph in 2nd gear...
 

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Have you guys try using or modifying the clutch slave cylinder to have the TOB travel further?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not to the best of my knowledge.

I asked about the TOB because my Clutchmaster kit didn't come with one, apparently a brand new TOB comes with every new transmission. Since the change out we haven't been having the engagement issues like before, it's just smoothing out the shifter now and making sure that the syncro's are going to stay in it.

I'm not really an expert on transmissions, I've been doing a lot of reading and learning. I'm not sure if the travel can be modified on this TOB, there isn't a whole lot going on in there. Here's a pic of the old transmission:



Tomorrow I'll see if I can get my camera near the sticker for the build date.
 

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Oh, its one of "those" types of trans. I thought they had a fork that went to the bellhousing and the slave cylinder on the outside of the transmission. :p

if there's no engagement issues, then doing anything with the TOB wouldn't do anything :p.
 

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Gen coupe 2.0t GT
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I think hyundai is trying a new fully synthetic tranny fluid. Got a call from my dealer today to see if it will benefit my car. She said they are flushing my tranny putting 2l of synthetic fluid, doing a highway test, flushing again, adding another 2 L highway test and giving it back to me to see if this will help. I dont think this is an official TSB but as I posted before, I did have the previous TSB for tranny fluid done when my tranny was replaced so this, is a new tranny fluid (I believe). I guess if this doesnt work they'll move on to the next step. Was amazed she said she just got the call from hyundai head office to get my car in and see if this will help. I have the difficult to engage 2nd, 5th gear grind should be fixed on all new trannys as they no longer use the plastic gear. Ya I know they used a plastic gear in a sports car:dunno:
 

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3.5L TT but wrong body
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Ive got a sinlge mass flywheel and still have rough / clunky shifting into 2nd. The ASM I spoke to said hyundai already changed materials used on 5th gear syncros to fix the problems with 5th grinding... Im 8k miles on my new trans with no grinding. My first one started grinding at 10k so hopefully this one doesn't start soon.
 
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