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· AMB~1YR
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I find that with the studs I gotta be more careful/slower, otherwise my tires spin easier. I was on the highway with it about a week ago, I would drop into fifth, get into the passing lane to pass people, around 5K RPMs my traction control starts kicking in... never had that with the summers.
This statement is so true.
 

· I drive a V6
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4,975 Posts
moley...

yes placebo.

Take a set of Hakka 1's without studs...then a set of Hakka 1's with studs. They will both drive the same.

Ive driven on these for years(both studded and non studded).

Rubber compound is extremely soft and tread depth is deep. This is what gives low grip on pavement NOT the studs.
 

· AMB~1YR
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3,073 Posts
are you for real??

You really dont know what you are talking about.
I am not a tire expert but I do know that the softer the rubber the more grip to pavement you will have. Why do formula one racers use soft tires? My brother had a car with winters on during the summer and he cornered like he was on rails. Performance tires also have soft rubber. That's why they don't last as long as All seasons. Why would they make performance tires with soft rubber if they are going to make you slip more?
 

· AMB~1YR
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3,073 Posts
Rubber compound is extremely soft and tread depth is deep. This is what gives low grip on pavement NOT the studs.
I'm sorry but who doesn't no what they are talking about. You are saying because winter tires have soft rubber, thats why they slip on pavement? I know the deep tread would contribute to that but the softer the rubber the more grip you have.
 

· Registered
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1,810 Posts
I wish I would have had studded winters on when I came home this morning. The freezing rain started a few hours before I left work to go home, the main roads were salted pretty good so traction was ok at best. When I got into my neighborhood there was no salt put down at all yet. It's all pretty much brand new asphalt and the roads are crowned to the extreme on these streets for some reason. It's just like a wet skating rink, a few times the car just slid to the curb and rested the tires/rims against the sidewalk. :( It's going to sound stupid but I actually got out of the car and put my feet against the sidewalk and pushed the car away from the curb, it just slid. Not sure if I have any rash yet as it's dark out. Then when I got to my house, I parked in the yard and when I got out of the car it slid into the street. I had to put sand down just to get the car to stay where I parked it.

I'm not sure how much the studs would have helped but any help would have been great. This winter is gonna be lots of fun, I can just see it now. :hsugh:
 

· Premium Member
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16,577 Posts
are you for real??

You really dont know what you are talking about.
It is true.

Don't believe me.

Go to an actual tire shop. Ask

Destud a set, run them for a summer and compare them to your summers

Helping out at the fleet shop that my dad works for off and on for like 10 years, changing tires. you notice things.


Still doubt? Google winter tires in summer. All say that they will wear out faster because of the softer compound.
 

· Burger King Dildo Hammer
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2,190 Posts
Studded tires FTW. Big ice storm here in Sudbury lastnight. I drove my car this morning and was able to get to work pretty good. Had a problem taking off from stops at some points, but stopping power was impeccable. Studs did pretty good for helping me steer through the ice and snow this morning too, I probably would have fishtailed a corner or two if it wasn't for them.

Definitely not a winter vehicle by any means though. Can't wait to get a truck for next winter and put my car away for the winter. Wish I didn't have to put the car through this winter.
 

· I drive a V6
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4,975 Posts
BALD winters could potentially grip well, theres way more to it than just how soft the tire is.

It is hilarious that anyone would think a winter tire would have more grip than a summer tire, absolutely hilarious.

Grab a winter tire off the shelf, take a look how deep the tread is and how easy you can bend it with your fingers. How much space there is between the blocks...contact patch is tiny vs a summer tread.

so you're telling me my traction goes down when I put my summers back on in spring LOL.
 

· I drive a V6
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4,975 Posts
the analogy to formula 1 tires is laughable.

Have you ever felt a racing tire? Its hard as a rock until its attained its proper heat range.

yes...I tire can be too soft!!

A winter tire compound is very different from a performance tire compound.

I cant even believe this conversation is happening lol
 

· GET OFF MY LAWN!
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2,261 Posts
Grilledcheez> if you were to drive the same tires without the studs, you would have equally reduced grip compared to your summer tires. An all out winter tire such as you have will always be like that on dry pavement. Studs or not.
Not true at all.

Performance winters are designed to provide performance tire traction, especially on cold, dry pavement, as well as snow traction. From experience, a good winter performance tire is fantastic on our cars: good for the few really bad days we have, good on mixed surface (ice/pavement/snow transitions) and still fantastic so that you can use the car the way it's designed to be used, within obvious seasonal constraints.

At middling temps, until the compound warms up too much, you should have truly excellent traction on winter tires/winter performance tires.
 

· GET OFF MY LAWN!
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2,261 Posts
BALD winters could potentially grip well, theres way more to it than just how soft the tire is.

It is hilarious that anyone would think a winter tire would have more grip than a summer tire, absolutely hilarious.

Grab a winter tire off the shelf, take a look how deep the tread is and how easy you can bend it with your fingers. How much space there is between the blocks...contact patch is tiny vs a summer tread.

so you're telling me my traction goes down when I put my summers back on in spring LOL.
To follow up; it's not all about contact patch: it's about grip. the blocks are designed to actually 'pull in and grip' the asphalt. Ten years ago, you'd have been absolutely correct, but modern winter tires, and especially winter performance tires, will perform spectacularly well on dry pavement, and will attain that needed temperature much faster (ie. will attain 'grip' temperature on colder pavement) due to the chemical make-up of the rubber. Very little of winter tire's grip is in the tread pattern these days, and again, that's especially true of performance winter tires, which are a relatively new addition to the consumer market.

You will, obviously, give up some deep snow/ice performance with a performance winter tire, but you'll also retain a huge amount of straight-up performance on dry/cold roads, that you wouldn't.

that's actually one of the reasons I chose my tires last year: Even Ottawa only gets maybe a dozen days a year that would jsutify heavy-duty, SNOW tires. the rest of the time, safety (and fun, lets not forget that) are achieved with tires that match the stock spec for size/stagger, and remain malleable, generating mechanical grip, at sub-zero temperatures, dry or wet.

Bald winters won't grip sh1t, just like bald summers won't.: if you believe they would, then you need to do some research into how tires actually work. Contact patch is only part of the equation, mechanical grip through tread design and chemical makeup to retain softeness/malleability are far more important: just as contact patch means very little if you have a 75% sidewall profile.
 

· GET OFF MY LAWN!
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2,261 Posts
Studded tires FTW. Big ice storm here in Sudbury lastnight. I drove my car this morning and was able to get to work pretty good. Had a problem taking off from stops at some points, but stopping power was impeccable. Studs did pretty good for helping me steer through the ice and snow this morning too, I probably would have fishtailed a corner or two if it wasn't for them.

Definitely not a winter vehicle by any means though. Can't wait to get a truck for next winter and put my car away for the winter. Wish I didn't have to put the car through this winter.
I've never driven Studded tires: i've never been (un)fortunate enough to require them. :D

Like you, I found last year in heavy snow that getting the car moving from a stop was the hardest part, once you were moving, with good tires, traction was excellent as was braking.

it's not a BAD winter car. It's just not a GOOD one. Sounds like you're doing as much as you can to make it better in the snow though.
 

· Premium Member
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16,577 Posts
BALD winters could potentially grip well, theres way more to it than just how soft the tire is.

It is hilarious that anyone would think a winter tire would have more grip than a summer tire, absolutely hilarious.

Grab a winter tire off the shelf, take a look how deep the tread is and how easy you can bend it with your fingers. How much space there is between the blocks...contact patch is tiny vs a summer tread.

so you're telling me my traction goes down when I put my summers back on in spring LOL.
Guess what happens when you run summer tires in the winter. They turn into hockey pucks. And is part of the reason why you can't get any traction. THIS is why they use a softer compound in winter. And its less to do with tread pattern and more to do with compound.

As far as added grip in summer. That is arguable
 

· I drive a V6
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4,975 Posts
Not true at all.

Performance winters are designed to provide performance tire traction, especially on cold, dry pavement, as well as snow traction. From experience, a good winter performance tire is fantastic on our cars: good for the few really bad days we have, good on mixed surface (ice/pavement/snow transitions) and still fantastic so that you can use the car the way it's designed to be used, within obvious seasonal constraints.

At middling temps, until the compound warms up too much, you should have truly excellent traction on winter tires/winter performance tires.
I have never brought up performance winters into the mix, this is strictly a studded Hakka vs a non studded hakka (studs or not)

performance winters are a very different animal than a studdable tire. You will NEVER find a performance winter tire than can be studded. My argument is that an all out studdable winter tire will have decreased dry traction compared to what you experience in summer(with your non winter tires) regardless of whether or not the studs are present.
 

· I drive a V6
Joined
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4,975 Posts
Guess what happens when you run summer tires in the winter. They turn into hockey pucks. And is part of the reason why you can't get any traction. THIS is why they use a softer compound in winter. And its less to do with tread pattern and more to do with compound.

As far as added grip in summer. That is arguable
you guys have to start reading what I am writing.

1. It was implied that once a tire is studded, it will grip LESS than its non studded twin on dry pavement. I replied why this is false.

2. Someone said due to soft compound, winter tires will grip better than summer tires in warm weather, I replied why this is rediculous. And only MAYBE if it was bald and was like a slick.

3. Now someone is comparing performance winters to all out winter tires, performance winters were never the subject of discussion.

The peanut gallery is was too quick to comment before understanding the subject.

This has turned into one very complicated thread.
 
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