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· I drive a V6
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Guess what happens when you run summer tires in the winter. They turn into hockey pucks. And is part of the reason why you can't get any traction. THIS is why they use a softer compound in winter. And its less to do with tread pattern and more to do with compound.

As far as added grip in summer. That is arguable
this really has nothing to do with the subject matter.
 

· AMB~1YR
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3,073 Posts
BALD winters could potentially grip well, theres way more to it than just how soft the tire is.

It is hilarious that anyone would think a winter tire would have more grip than a summer tire, absolutely hilarious.

Grab a winter tire off the shelf, take a look how deep the tread is and how easy you can bend it with your fingers. How much space there is between the blocks...contact patch is tiny vs a summer tread.

so you're telling me my traction goes down when I put my summers back on in spring LOL.
For the most part that's what I am saying. You are right about the depth of the tread and the amount of contact to the road but the softer rubber makes up for that. And when you say summers do you mean all seasons or performance tires. If they are all season than the winters will have more grip for sure. All season tires are meant to last and have hard rubber and less grip. Performance tires have soft rubber, almost as soft as winters so the performance tires would grip better due to more contact to the road and soft rubber. All in all the softer the rubber the more grip you will have and that plays a greater roll than tread spacing.

 

· AMB~1YR
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3,073 Posts
Guess what happens when you run summer tires in the winter. They turn into hockey pucks. And is part of the reason why you can't get any traction. THIS is why they use a softer compound in winter. And its less to do with tread pattern and more to do with compound.

As far as added grip in summer. That is arguable
Another true statement.
 

· AMB~1YR
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3,073 Posts
the analogy to formula 1 tires is laughable.

Have you ever felt a racing tire? Its hard as a rock until its attained its proper heat range.

yes...I tire can be too soft!!

A winter tire compound is very different from a performance tire compound.

I cant even believe this conversation is happening lol
It's happening. Arguing about tires is silly but learning peoples different point of views is not. We are both Halarious :) Oh and just to add out of spite formula one tires are meant to get soft under heat. Why do you think they swerve back and forth before the race starts. Same with dragsters. Why do they spin the tires before the 1/4 mile. Soft rubber FTW for traction. The amount of contact to the road comes in second.
 

· Burger King Dildo Hammer
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2,190 Posts
I've never driven Studded tires: i've never been (un)fortunate enough to require them. :D

Like you, I found last year in heavy snow that getting the car moving from a stop was the hardest part, once you were moving, with good tires, traction was excellent as was braking.

it's not a BAD winter car. It's just not a GOOD one. Sounds like you're doing as much as you can to make it better in the snow though.
I feel bad even putting my car through this winter. I just wanna take good care of it like a little baby. So hopefully I can afford a decent truck next year, and sell the winters I bought, and use the truck for the winters. :D

But yeah, definitely liking the tires, they worked pretty good today! I hope its not a long winter, but seems like its goin be a bitch of a one up here this year.
 

· GET OFF MY LAWN!
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2,261 Posts
I feel bad even putting my car through this winter. I just wanna take good care of it like a little baby. So hopefully I can afford a decent truck next year, and sell the winters I bought, and use the truck for the winters. :D

But yeah, definitely liking the tires, they worked pretty good today! I hope its not a long winter, but seems like its goin be a bitch of a one up here this year.
Yeah, Ottawa was really mild last winter, so I'm wondering if this is gonna be another banger of a winter.

Meh. if the snow's deep, I just don't drive anywhere. Good 'nuff reason to stay home and shoot zombies. :D
 

· GET OFF MY LAWN!
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2,261 Posts
you guys have to start reading what I am writing.

1. It was implied that once a tire is studded, it will grip LESS than its non studded twin on dry pavement. I replied why this is false.

2. Someone said due to soft compound, winter tires will grip better than summer tires in warm weather, I replied why this is rediculous. And only MAYBE if it was bald and was like a slick.

3. Now someone is comparing performance winters to all out winter tires, performance winters were never the subject of discussion.

The peanut gallery is was too quick to comment before understanding the subject.

This has turned into one very complicated thread.
Ok, now THIS makes some sense.

I did read what you wrote, but what you wrote wasn't clear (to the reader: i've no doubt you knew exactly what you were saying).

so:

1] This is definitely clearer. All anyone (not just you) had said was "winter tires don't work on dry pavement". There was no explicit mention of studded vs non-studed. As performance winter tires are, by definition, winter tires, and we drive a performance car, fair game, IMO. However, you're right: studed vs non-studded, on the same tire, in the same non-ice conditions should be nearly identical. Although the studded will not make you a favorite of your local municipality on dry, clear roads. :D

2] I think 'warm weather' needs to be defined: for me, if you're talking winter tires, then warm weather is those warm days during winter, maybe 2oC, +/-5oC. If you're talking summertime, then yeah, totally true. A serious summer/performance tire will outperform any other tire during the summer: just like a winter tire will out perform a summer tire (which goes to sh1t at about +5oc and lower) on a 'warm winter day'.

3] I think, given the car, the forum, and the sizes/stagger that we're talking about, Performance winter tires, and the appropriate time to use them have to be part of the discussion. To discount their use on this kind of car is silly. BUT, if you're sticking to point 1], same tire, studded vs non-studded, then yes, you're absolutely right, they're a non-starter as far as the discussion is concerned.

As for the peanut gallery (and my place in it ;) ) I think the original discussion, and where it was going, was understood by the two people who started it, BUT was vague enough that anyone reading it didn't specifically realize the very, very narrow scope of the it. Given that scope, your points are totally valid. Given what everyone but you and the OP were reading, the scope didn't seem so narrow. Clarity in the discussion is everything.

Back on the original discussion: how is the feel of studded tires on dry/cold pavement? I've never driven them: none of the municipalities I've ever lived in have had the conditions to allow, or need, them. On the topic of studded tires, I'm happy to let you and the OP, who obviously know their sh1t, educate me. I know diddly about studded, other than what I've started to learn the last two days, as a result of this discussion.
 

· AMB~1YR
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3,073 Posts
are you for real??

You really dont know what you are talking about.
BALD winters could potentially grip well, theres way more to it than just how soft the tire is.

It is hilarious that anyone would think a winter tire would have more grip than a summer tire, absolutely hilarious.
it IS true...but it is due to the winter tires themselves NOT the studs.
Ok. I have to give in a bit here. I got some new non studded winters on my work van. I noticed the ass end feels a bit squirly on dry pavement. I contribute this to what you said earlier about tread spacing and depth. I believe that part now. I still think that studs would make that even worse but whatever. So I'll give you that. As far as winters gripping better than summers in the summer goes. When my bro had his winters on in the summer he cornered like he was on rails but ya he had under half tread. So I'll meat you in the middle. Great info in this thread BTW. Stilll I would never buy studded tires. The tires on my work van don't have studs and I have a hard time getting them to spin in snowy parking lots.:rofl:
 

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