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Discussion Starter #1
Would it make any sense to double up the TB spacer (gasket between of course)? Would that be too much space between the TB and the intake? I assume they made these spacers a certain size for a reason, but I see a lot of people also adding in double P2R gaskets, which nearly doubles the distance that the TB spacer creates. Basically, how much space is too much space?

Also, on the R2C intake, why is the MAF mounted at the box versus at the other end of the intake near the TB? Would this make a difference?

Since I brought up the R2C CAI, what if I covered the entire intake (scoop from the hood thru to the filter box) with High Performance Reflective Insulation (sometimes called radiant barrier insulation). I have a bunch from an attic installation in an old house I had to let go (www.eagleshield.com). It's basically a very thin heat barrier that I could use 3M spray glue to adhere it to the box and scoop... Maybe I'll install without to get temps and then add to see if there is a difference in air temp at the intake? Gotta find my heat gun to do that though... Before I do all this work, I would like some opinion if anyone thinks it's worth the trouble. I'm already working on a switch to bypass the coolant flow thru the intake manifold in the summer. This way I can turn it back on in the cold winter months to be sure I don't damage anything.

Somewhat of a noob on the effect of TB spacer upgrade and positioning of the MAF. Been doing bolt on mods to my cars for years, but mainly older vehicles with much less computer control/adjustment.

Been stockpiling mods so I can have a fun weekend of upgrades, but want to be fully prepared.

Thanks for your insight!! :D
 

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2012 3.8 Track ZF-6-SPD
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I only did the p2r spacer with oem gasket on each side. I figured the pnp and ceramic coating on my tb and intake manifolds were enough along with the phenolic spacer.
 

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The MAF should stay in the OEM location. Adding another spacer is a waste of time and money. Hell, even adding one spacer is a waste. It barely increases the plenum volume and for the money you can put it towards a Grimspeed balanced manifold. It's not "P&P" like your "want" list states. Heat wrapping everything is cool if you track your car constantly or live in a hot climate where you are driving the hell out of your car. For DD duty it isn't even worth the time.

You are not going to get much power with a full bolt on 3.8.

Also Sprint Booster + Reflash? No..
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You are not going to get much power with a full bolt on 3.8.

Also Sprint Booster + Reflash? No..
Thanks for the MAF suggestion. I would agree but was curious.

I don't need massive power. Just want to feel like I'm getting the most out of the v6. I'm happy with 20-25 hp with all bolt-ons. When this engine is done I'll drop in a supercharged v8...

The sprint booster is for throttle response. I know it does nothing for performance.

I have to disagree on the flash. Not only is it is recommended by probably hundreds of people on this forum, but to get full performance you need to adjust timing fuel/air mixture, etc...

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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To OP:

if you decide to get throttle body spacer and gaskets, make sure you will be tuned for it before you put them on. I was just recently back from a custom tune event where I was shown how bad i was dumping fuel just because of that.

you get leaned out really bad. i was dumping, i believe Sam's the Korean Tuner said, at 3500 rmp at almost 50%.

my AF was measured at 10.0

I was getting near 11 mpg.

(This is my experience and may or may not apply to all)
 

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Paint me pink and call me skeptical! A throttle body spacer dropped your mileage to 11 mpg, you say? Mmmmkay.
 

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11? I have only ever got 15.5-16 max

its dropped a total of 4 maybe 5 mpg

oh yeah, also I have my dyno on 3.8 page, should be last. My A/F before custom tune was at 10.0 at about 3500rpm, dumping fuel after that
 

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Sooooo, what you're saying is you either drive like a lunatic or your car is broken. Thanks for clarifying in your first post where you said "I was getting near 11mpg" that your car "only ever got...16mpg max"

I have a catback, tune, and intake and get over 30mpg highway on my 3.8. Your car is busted. Please stop giving bad information to people like you have done in other threads.
 

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Really? Please talk to btr about what spacer due to a/f before you call some out on BS
 

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Anyways OP, take it for what it is. Hear it or ignore it. Just letting you know my experience.
 

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To OP:

if you decide to get throttle body spacer and gaskets, make sure you will be tuned for it before you put them on. I was just recently back from a custom tune event where I was shown how bad i was dumping fuel just because of that.

you get leaned out really bad. i was dumping, i believe Sam's the Korean Tuner said, at 3500 rmp at almost 50%.

my AF was measured at 10.0

I was getting near 11 mpg.

(This is my experience and may or may not apply to all)
11? I have only ever got 15.5-16 max

its dropped a total of 4 maybe 5 mpg


oh yeah, also I have my dyno on 3.8 page, should be last. My A/F before custom tune was at 10.0 at about 3500rpm, dumping fuel after that
Really? Please talk to btr about what spacer due to a/f before you call some out on BS
I highly doubt that a, what, half inch? spacer is going to cause a 33% reduction in gas mileage. You STILL don't seem to understand that if your car is getting 16 miles per gallon there is something wrong The only time I ever got 16mpg was when I was in gridlock for 2 1/2 hours and my average speed was 8 mph.

So until such a time as you figure out why your car gets worse gas mileage than a dump truck, I would appreciate if you would refrain from posting unqualified statements like the above where you neglected to mention that your car doesn't get appropriate fuel economy before saying "a throttle body spacer gave me 11 mpg until I got a tune". :shake:
 

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Reread the last statement I made one my initial posting...

"(This is my experience and may or may not apply to all)"
 

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Well thats fine, I will keep my experiences to myself as we do have a know it all. My dyno a/f means nothing b, btr is wrong on this, and the correction shown on dyno is wrong too. My car isnt broken otherwise it would not be able to be tuned, dont believe me, ask BTR...well nevermind. Noone knows better then you.

Bad idea to post for ideas, just PM BK will know your answer

I'm done.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
While I haven't dynoed anything... I can tell you that when I added the TBS my fuel gauge is dropping much quicker and my driving habits haven't changed. It seems like I'm burning through more gas with it on...

I have about a half a tank and will keep an eye on the avg MPG for a bit. When I'm ready to fill up, I will pull the TBS to see if there is a difference. Keep in mind I don't drive much (work from home) so it may be a bit before posting an update.
 

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See if there is more than normal carbon build build around your exhaust tips. Thats an easy way to indicate wasted fuel.

Is the waste of fuel seems like a decent amount changed from before you were installed?
 

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you're still missing the point where I'm telling you I get 30mpg with the same performance mods, and you're telling me you get 16mpg.

If a phenolic spacer is crushing gas mileage like that, why even run it. You can easily tap your charge piping for nitrous, losing 33% mpg at $4 a gallon is no where near worth the 3hp a longer tb and lower charge temp might get you.

Where's this dyno btw? I'd like to look at it.
 

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you're still missing the point where I'm telling you I get 30mpg with the same performance mods, and you're telling me you get 16mpg.

If a phenolic spacer is crushing gas mileage like that, why even run it. You can easily tap your charge piping for nitrous, losing 33% mpg at $4 a gallon is no where near worth the 3hp a longer tb and lower charge temp might get you.

Where's this dyno btw? I'd like to look at it.
The point isnt what mpg YOU get or whatever, the point is what the OP want thats why its his thread. You have provided nothing as to his thread. Start another thread if you want to talk about how much gas you get and why or why not to use spacers and stop hi-jacking peoples thread.

Understand the point?

As for where dyno is located, I already specify earlier..."search"
 

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The point isnt what mpg YOU get or whatever, the point is what the OP want thats why its his thread. You have provided nothing as to his thread. Start another thread if you want to talk about how much gas you get and why or why not to use spacers and stop hi-jacking peoples thread.

Understand the point?

As for where dyno is located, I already specify earlier..."search"
lol...k bud. I'm thread jacking by refuting your unsubstantiated information that a throttle body spacer caused you to run so far out of normal trim that you flatlined on your dyno.


Here's a news flash. If your AFR is getting pulled from reading the oxygen sensor, it's always going to flat line at Wide Open Throttle when your car switches to open loop. Maybe BTRcc used a tail pipe sniffer for your AFR on your dyno, I don't know, so I sent them a PM to ask.

o2 sensors are used for close loop calibration. WOT operation uses set fuel tables based on airflow and engine RPM since the engine is always eating as much air as it can for a given speed, there's no need to use the voltage off the o2 sensor to calibrate it. It uses set tables, MAF values, and coolant temperature. And WOT always runs rich.

Long story short, I found nothing related to throttle body spacers affecting AFR on google, and nothing pointing to where BTRcc said that a tb spacer causes a rich condition. Well see what they say to my PM.


Since I'm so unhelpful, OP, I tend to side with our mechanical engineer and very intelligent friend ibnzmonkey most of the time. This time is no different. Stacking throttlebody spacers won't gain you much in terms of power output. You'd be far better served to get your manifold ported and polished by grimmspeed. Throw a tb spacer and manifold spacer on for good thermal isolation. Can't hurt.

IIRC you just want somewhere around the typical 300whp mark with bolt ons. I'd recommend getting the fiebruz headers and ark downpipes, an intake and catback, and doing a port and polish, and some phenolic spacers and getting that all tuned up on a dyno. That should get you a good amount of reliable daily driver power.

If you want to take it 1 step further, fiebruz is releasing stage 1 and 2 cams for the 3.8. They are doing a group buy for 1695 that comes with a pretuned ECU, and is calibrated for full bolt ons (headers, exhaust, intake, and cams) and their best pass on the test car was high 12s and it dynoed around 355whp if I remember correctly. That would take care of the need to tune, and give you a very quick car.
 
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